A few theories here. I may be about to make a fool of myself, but I think Robert may have forging and Annealing a tad muddled up in their properties..
Maybe I do... -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Terry Sent: Sunday, 13 April 2003 9:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Cryogenically treating high-load componentsforextremeduressuse Interesting thread this. So Andrew, any ideas on how they make a forged crankshaft? Do they start by turning a lump of solid steel in a lathe and then belt it - if so with what? regards Terry -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of GREENBURY, Andrew Robert Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2003 5:26 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Cryogenically treating high-load componentsforextremeduressuse Annealing is controlled heating and cooling to remove a material's internal stresses making it less brittle ie less prone to shattering. Forging makes an item stronger by deliberately making a metals crystal structure nonuniform. The crystals require more force to get past each other to cause deformation, therefore the material is stronger (but also more brittle being the tradeoff). Simply, forging involves belting a material to make the metal structure non-uniform (work hardening is the correct description) and can be done by various ways eg by hand like old sword makers, with or without heat, via hydraulic presses, drop hammers, etc. On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Geordie wrote: > Annealing makes a metal more prone to shattering... > I think forging is a different process. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Friday, 11 April 2003 5:37 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Cryogenically treating high-load > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > Then they stick it red hot into a POW because 37 degrees (body > temperature) is close to the ideal temp for annealing. They apparently > went straight down your body just next to your head. Kept you alive as > long as possible. > I'm glad they started making engines. > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > On 4/11/03, 5:20:42 PM, "mark krawczuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > regarding Re: Cryogenically treating high-load > componentsforextremeduressuse: > > > > yes, with the samurai sword, they fold it then belt it back together so > that > > it becomes one mass again, ,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt > it > > back together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back > > together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back > together,fold > > it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it > > back together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back > > together,fold it ,belt it back together, etc,........... > > till it is done................. > > > mark k > > > > - Original Message ----- > > From: "Ben C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:42 PM > > Subject: Re: Cryogenically treating high-load > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > > forged is where the metal is heated up and belted into shape.....like > how > > > they used to make swords.....forge them :) > > > > > > (thats right isnt it??) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "David Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:25 PM > > > Subject: RE: Cryogenically treating high-load > > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > Right so what does forged mean? And can I buy a forged L28 crank, rods, > > > gudgeon pins? > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > On 4/11/03, 12:34:30 AM, Terry Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > > regarding RE: Cryogenically treating high-load > > > componentsforextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > I prefer straight forged stuff, expensive but you can't break it > > (easily > > > > anyway). I have a Nissan comp engine that's done only street work and > it > > > > still has the original forged crank & pistons still in it after nearly > > 30 > > > > years work. From what I can work out, most if not all of those other > > > catchy > > > > treatments give cast part a bit of longevity. Hollow cranks were all > the > > > > rage is race engines in the 80's, but they've gone back to the more > > > > conventional types lately, I read recently that the current BAR Mugen > > > Honda > > > > model F1 cranks and rods etc are straight forged (out of titanium not > > > > steel.) > > > > > > > regards > > > > Terry > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David > Andrews > > > > Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2003 7:31 PM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: RE: Cryogentically treating high-load > > > > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > Importance: High > > > > > > > > > > Ben, Mark, Geordie, Terry, > > > > > > > Thanks very much for that. Was always curious what all the different > > > > terms you read in mags actually were. > > > > So a shot-peened, nitrided, billet, cryogentically treated bottom end > > > > would be fairly strongish? > > > > > > > Oh and the other one i've read was a cross-drilled crank? Is that just > > > > for lightening it? That doesn't seem logical to me? Or has noone else > > > > ever heard of this? > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > On 4/9/03, 11:33:51 AM, "Geordie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > > > regarding RE: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > forextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > Billet is a solid lump of metal and the component is ground into the > > > > shape. > > > > > Rather than melted and set into a mould, then machined. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark > > krawczuk > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2003 10:21 AM > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: Re: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > forextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > hi, nitriding is treating the metal with a chemical (i think it > > might > > > > be > > > > > arsenic ?)that penetrates the surface by a tiny amount, and making > it > > > > > extremely hard. > > > > > > > > shotpeening is blasting the surface under high pressure with > tiny > > > > steel > > > > > ball bearings, this compacts the surface and denies cracks a > starting > > > > > place. > > > > > billett??? dunno never heard of that one.... > > > > > > > > mark k > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "David Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:24 AM > > > > > Subject: RE: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > forextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > It will probably see some track use but mostly street, so only in > that > > > > > rev range once in a while. I've got some more questions, what > exactly > > is > > > > > nitriding, shotpeening and what is billet? Is billet just another > > > > > stronger type of metal? I guess I won't know how it holds up until I > > try > > > > > it (standing well back of course). > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > On 4/8/03, 10:31:20 PM, "Daniel Kroehn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote > > > > > regarding RE: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > forextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > > Boost pressure on top of the piston, especially as much as you > want > > to > > > > > run > > > > > > will change the overall equation dramatically! > > > > > > Even for an N/A engine at that rpm, I would be going forged > pistons > > > with > > > > > > prepped standard rods and crank. Will you be racing it, or will > > that > > > > > sort > > > > > > of rev range only be hit every once and a while? > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David > > > Andrews > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2003 10:02 PM > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > > forextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > > Bah, Linday at Z-workshop here in melbourne has a N/A 3.1L L28 > which > > > > sees > > > > > > 8500 no worries. > > > > > > Only 500rpm more and forced induction? No problem. Or is there? > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > > On 4/8/03, 9:48:25 PM, Tony Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > > regarding > > > > > > Re: Cryogentically treating high-load components for > > extremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:26, you wrote: > > > > > > > > Well I want to be able to hit 9,000 with my L28. Boost, > 25-30psi > > > > > should > > > > > > > > be enough i'd reckon. > > > > > > > > What kind of bottom end would I need for that? > > > > > > > > > > an RB26DETT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------
