Geordie, His name is Andrew (damn uni accounts), and I don't think hes got it wrong. Annealing is a cooling procedure. Forging is a shaping/machining procedure.
Bob, That article explains it very well. Thanks for that. My next quesiton is, what are the vibration dampeners it talks about? And do L-series have them? Also, does anyone know of a place to get a billet L28 crank? Not that I can afford it now, just for future reference when I can (and need to). Thanks, Dave >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< On 4/13/03, 11:49:49 AM, "Geordie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote regarding RE: Cryogenically treating high-load componentsforextremeduressuse: > A few theories here. > I may be about to make a fool of myself, but I think Robert may have forging > and Annealing a tad muddled up in their properties.. > Maybe I do... > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Terry > Sent: Sunday, 13 April 2003 9:12 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Cryogenically treating high-load > componentsforextremeduressuse > Interesting thread this. So Andrew, any ideas on how they make a forged > crankshaft? Do they start by turning a lump of solid steel in a lathe and > then belt it - if so with what? > regards > Terry > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of GREENBURY, > Andrew Robert > Sent: Saturday, 12 April 2003 5:26 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Cryogenically treating high-load > componentsforextremeduressuse > Annealing is controlled heating and cooling to remove a material's > internal stresses making it less brittle ie less prone to shattering. > Forging makes an item stronger by deliberately making a metals crystal > structure nonuniform. The crystals require more force to get past each > other to cause deformation, therefore the material is stronger (but also > more brittle being the tradeoff). > Simply, forging involves belting a material to make the metal > structure non-uniform (work hardening is the correct description) and can > be done by various ways eg by hand like old sword makers, with or without > heat, via hydraulic presses, drop hammers, etc. > On Fri, 11 Apr 2003, Geordie wrote: > > Annealing makes a metal more prone to shattering... > > I think forging is a different process. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Andrews > > Sent: Friday, 11 April 2003 5:37 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Cryogenically treating high-load > > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > > > Then they stick it red hot into a POW because 37 degrees (body > > temperature) is close to the ideal temp for annealing. They apparently > > went straight down your body just next to your head. Kept you alive as > > long as possible. > > I'm glad they started making engines. > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > On 4/11/03, 5:20:42 PM, "mark krawczuk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > regarding Re: Cryogenically treating high-load > > componentsforextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > yes, with the samurai sword, they fold it then belt it back together so > > that > > > it becomes one mass again, ,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt > > it > > > back together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back > > > together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back > > together,fold > > > it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt > it > > > back together,fold it ,belt it back together,fold it ,belt it back > > > together,fold it ,belt it back together, etc,........... > > > till it is done................. > > > > > mark k > > > > > > > - Original Message ----- > > > From: "Ben C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:42 PM > > > Subject: Re: Cryogenically treating high-load > > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > forged is where the metal is heated up and belted into shape.....like > > how > > > > they used to make swords.....forge them :) > > > > > > > > (thats right isnt it??) > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "David Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:25 PM > > > > Subject: RE: Cryogenically treating high-load > > > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > > Right so what does forged mean? And can I buy a forged L28 crank, > rods, > > > > gudgeon pins? > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > On 4/11/03, 12:34:30 AM, Terry Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > > > regarding RE: Cryogenically treating high-load > > > > componentsforextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prefer straight forged stuff, expensive but you can't break it > > > (easily > > > > > anyway). I have a Nissan comp engine that's done only street work > and > > it > > > > > still has the original forged crank & pistons still in it after > nearly > > > 30 > > > > > years work. From what I can work out, most if not all of those other > > > > catchy > > > > > treatments give cast part a bit of longevity. Hollow cranks were all > > the > > > > > rage is race engines in the 80's, but they've gone back to the more > > > > > conventional types lately, I read recently that the current BAR > Mugen > > > > Honda > > > > > model F1 cranks and rods etc are straight forged (out of titanium > not > > > > > steel.) > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > Terry > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David > > Andrews > > > > > Sent: Thursday, 10 April 2003 7:31 PM > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: RE: Cryogentically treating high-load > > > > > componentsforextremeduressuse > > > > > Importance: High > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ben, Mark, Geordie, Terry, > > > > > > > > > Thanks very much for that. Was always curious what all the different > > > > > terms you read in mags actually were. > > > > > So a shot-peened, nitrided, billet, cryogentically treated bottom > end > > > > > would be fairly strongish? > > > > > > > > > Oh and the other one i've read was a cross-drilled crank? Is that > just > > > > > for lightening it? That doesn't seem logical to me? Or has noone > else > > > > > ever heard of this? > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > > On 4/9/03, 11:33:51 AM, "Geordie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote > > > > > regarding RE: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > forextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Billet is a solid lump of metal and the component is ground into > the > > > > > shape. > > > > > > Rather than melted and set into a mould, then machined. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mark > > > krawczuk > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 9 April 2003 10:21 AM > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > > forextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hi, nitriding is treating the metal with a chemical (i think it > > > might > > > > > be > > > > > > arsenic ?)that penetrates the surface by a tiny amount, and making > > it > > > > > > extremely hard. > > > > > > > > > > shotpeening is blasting the surface under high pressure with > > tiny > > > > > steel > > > > > > ball bearings, this compacts the surface and denies cracks a > > starting > > > > > > place. > > > > > > billett??? dunno never heard of that one.... > > > > > > > > > > mark k > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "David Andrews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:24 AM > > > > > > Subject: RE: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > > forextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It will probably see some track use but mostly street, so only in > > that > > > > > > rev range once in a while. I've got some more questions, what > > exactly > > > is > > > > > > nitriding, shotpeening and what is billet? Is billet just another > > > > > > stronger type of metal? I guess I won't know how it holds up until > I > > > try > > > > > > it (standing well back of course). > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > > > On 4/8/03, 10:31:20 PM, "Daniel Kroehn" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > wrote > > > > > > regarding RE: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > > forextremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Boost pressure on top of the piston, especially as much as you > > want > > > to > > > > > > run > > > > > > > will change the overall equation dramatically! > > > > > > > Even for an N/A engine at that rpm, I would be going forged > > pistons > > > > with > > > > > > > prepped standard rods and crank. Will you be racing it, or will > > > that > > > > > > sort > > > > > > > of rev range only be hit every once and a while? > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > > > > > > Daniel Kroehn > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David > > > > Andrews > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 8 April 2003 10:02 PM > > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Cryogentically treating high-load components > > > > > > > forextremeduressuse > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bah, Linday at Z-workshop here in melbourne has a N/A 3.1L L28 > > which > > > > > sees > > > > > > > 8500 no worries. > > > > > > > Only 500rpm more and forced induction? No problem. Or is there? > > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/8/03, 9:48:25 PM, Tony Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote > > > > regarding > > > > > > > Re: Cryogentically treating high-load components for > > > extremeduressuse: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 08 Apr 2003 23:26, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well I want to be able to hit 9,000 with my L28. Boost, > > 25-30psi > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > be enough i'd reckon. > > > > > > > > > What kind of bottom end would I need for that? > > > > > > > > > > > > an RB26DETT > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --membersozdat------------------------------------------------------- OZDAT Mailing List Please Note:- Send (un)subscribe requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send submissions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] No unauthorised redistribution of this email http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/index.htm http://www.ozdat.com/ozdatonline/listindex.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------
