Of course, the main 'benefit' has been the dismantlement the New Deal and the Great Society. This in itself means more wealth for the few. And, domination of the world might add to their financial wealth as well.
On Dec 27, 6:55 pm, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi y'all - my hypothesis is based on financial investments from 2000 > to the present. If we go back far enough, of course there will be few, > if any, who haven't shown a profit or a prophet whichever you prefer. > > On Dec 27, 8:36 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Besides the obvious share holders in the military industrial complex > > (Cheney – Halliburton, Blackwater, etc. see:http://iraqforsale.org/ > > ), it is obvious to me that neo-conservatism has been quite successful > > in its goals starting in the 1960s. For those who haven’t studied it > > or lived through it, a simple overview of this can be found at: > > >http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Neo-conservative > > > And, if one goes to more recent public pronouncements, I would say > > that their goals have been well met. See: > > >http://www.newamericancentury.org/ > > > At least, if one judges the goals of this particular ideology by the > > words of those who follow it, not much could have turned out better! > > > On Dec 27, 2:04 pm, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hi y'all - quote "The neocons probably benefited overall in the Iraq > > > war." > > > > I'm sure they expected to, but hindsight would suggest differently > > > overall. > > > > On Dec 27, 11:34 am, "Jason (Memphis)" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > The point was that I don't believe for a second that people will avoid > > > > war for the noble reasons you originally described (reduce oppression, > > > > etc.). Tribes of people (government officials, nations, religious > > > > organizations, etc) will war if the cost to that specific organization > > > > is not that great and the payoff far outweighs the cost. The neocons > > > > probably benefited overall in the Iraq war. > > > > > A draft or conscription would probably help deter war because wealthy > > > > and powerful people's children would also be put in harms way to > > > > protect resources. For example, the neoconservatives would be put at > > > > risk of death (or their children) instead of just having other people > > > > die to protect their resources. It is quite amazing how a group of > > > > old men and a few old women can convince young people to readily died > > > > for a cause while those old people sit well out of harms way and don't > > > > incur the financial sacrifices. > > > > > Jason > > > > > On Dec 26, 11:23 pm, Isparklaria <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Dec 26, 7:24 pm, "Jason (Memphis)" <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > hmmmm....I wonder if an informed citizenry wouldn't just continue > > > > > > use > > > > > > the military to increase wealth but not talk about it so openly. > > > > > > I don't think Americans would do this at this time. The United > > > > > Nations, nuclear weapons and breakdown of international trade would be > > > > > additional deterrents for the USA as well as other nations. I also > > > > > believe that Americans as a whole don't like war. However, if an > > > > > informed citizenry > > > > > increased the wealth of all, or at least most, and sacrificed human > > > > > lives to do it, it might be crazy and cruel, but at least it would be > > > > > more equitible than what we have now. Presently a few thousand have > > > > > lost lives of friends or family members, more have been seriously > > > > > wounded, nearly all have lost money, by way of the national debt, and > > > > > a few have made billions. Or nation as a whole has been severly > > > > > weakened. This is not even counting the horrendous situation on the > > > > > other side (the Iraqis and Afghanis). It is time to bring the war > > > > > profiteers, and their puppets in our goverment, to trial. > > > > > > By the way, I forgot to mention General Butler's solution. He > > > > > suggested conscripting suppilies as well as soldiers, thereby taking > > > > > the profit out of war for arms dealers. > > > > > > On Dec 26, 7:24 pm, "Jason (Memphis)" <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > "[The military] of an informed citizenry...will be used for self- > > > > > > defense and when feasible to help fight tyranny and oppression." > > > > > > > hmmmm....I wonder if an informed citizenry wouldn't just continue > > > > > > use > > > > > > the military to increase wealth but not talk about it so openly. > > > > > > That > > > > > > seems to be the trend and tendency. I don't think that tendency or > > > > > > trend will stop until the bloodlines amongst countries and economic > > > > > > ties are so strong that too many informed citizens would be upset > > > > > > with > > > > > > the killing of their relatives from the opposing country and > > > > > > wouldn't > > > > > > want to risk damaging the economic gains from that opposing country. > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > On Dec 26, 10:18 am, Isparklaria <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I don't know what Obama plans to do with the military as far as > > > > > > > base > > > > > > > closures and the size of the standing army. As I see it he has > > > > > > > one of > > > > > > > two reasonable routes. > > > > > > > > 1. He can accept that America has taken the role of worldwide > > > > > > > enforcer > > > > > > > and do the job right. The first most important step here is to > > > > > > > take > > > > > > > the army back from control of the international corporations. I > > > > > > > believe that war for profit has been the primary force running the > > > > > > > American army for well over 100 years. As evidence, here is a > > > > > > > link to > > > > > > > the book "War Is A Racket," by Major General Smedley > > > > > > > Butler.http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html > > > > > > > Once the army is following the will of an informed citizenry, > > > > > > > then it > > > > > > > will be used for self-defense and when feasible to help fight > > > > > > > tyranny > > > > > > > and oppression. Notice that I said when feasible. Helping others, > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > possible, does help us, or so I believe. But not when it leaves us > > > > > > > overextended. Then it helps no one. Life Guards, for example, are > > > > > > > taught not to attempt a rescue that they think is not possible. > > > > > > > Why > > > > > > > risk two lives. Why run down our military, lose American lives and > > > > > > > ruin our economy for nothing. The army must not be dominated by > > > > > > > mercenaries. This is one of the things that led to the downfall of > > > > > > > Rome. When our sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, cousins and > > > > > > > friends > > > > > > > are in the army, we will not go to war so easily. When we do, we > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > have a plan to win with the fewest possible casualties, like > > > > > > > Clinton's > > > > > > > war in Yugoslavia. If the Commander in chief is failing, he > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > > recalled. Much of the killing of non participating civilians > > > > > > > occurs > > > > > > > when the mission is not clear and it stalls, like in Vietnam and > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > Iraq. > > > > > > > > 2. The second approach would be to give up being the world's > > > > > > > policeman. Neither the Iraq or Afghanistan wars would have been > > > > > > > necessary. The Afghanis were willing to turn Bin Laden and his > > > > > > > crew > > > > > > > over to a neutral world court. Now they are roaming free. The > > > > > > > pressure > > > > > > > was working on Saddam Hussein. Inspectors were being allowed to do > > > > > > > their jobs. Of course if these wars had been run properly then > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > wouldn't have turned out so badly and as much as I hate war, I > > > > > > > might > > > > > > > believe that we did the right thing. > > > > > > > > As I see it these are two reasonable options. Both of them are far > > > > > > > from ideal, but necessary in the world that we live in > > > > > > > > On Dec 25, 10:01 pm, CrossBow <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > No, I did not say anti-military, but any generic reference to > > > > > > > > faceless > > > > > > > > people as child killers is not exactly positive either. We > > > > > > > > risk dehumanize > > > > > > > > them like we accuse them of dehumanizing their target enemy if > > > > > > > > we drop the > > > > > > > > casual killer labels. I believe we agree on most as I said > > > > > > > > before, how we > > > > > > > > say it is just as important. Curious enough, the old GI > > > > > > > > benefits you > > > > > > > > mention are in place, and for some, particularly those > > > > > > > > diagnosed with > > > > > > > > traumatic stress disorder, reprieve has finally come, it is now > > > > > > > > formally recognized as an actual medical condition.... > > > > > > > > > read more » > > > > > > > > > Education benefits are working if you use them. Active Duty > > > > > > > > military offers > > > > > > > > a GI bill of $50,000 - while not Ivy League, can get you a > > > > > > > > degree that will > > > > > > > > keep you from re-enlisting if you are done with active duty. > > > > > > > > The rest is up > > > > > > > > to the individual's drive. I'm not sure that the National > > > > > > > > Guard has > > > > > > > > decreased or increased, do not have the stats on that, but > > > > > > > > surely the border > > > > > > > > duty and over seas tours have. National Guard and Reserve have > > > > > > > > been on the > > > > > > > > rise for years since the decrease of combat troop count, and > > > > > > > > base closures, > > > > > > > > but more attention has spotlighted them since Bush and 9/11. > > > > > > > > What Obama's > > > > > > > > appointees do will be interesting. Any suppositions on that? > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 5:44 PM, Isparklaria > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Crossbow, > > > > > > > > > > While I enjoyed your reply, I think you misread mine. I am > > > > > > > > > not against > > > > > > > > > the military. I just want to see it reporting to a President > > > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > reports to the people. I would like see the public informed > > > > > > > > > and also > > > > > > > > > able to recall a president who is definately incompetant and > > > > > > > > > probably > > > > > > > > > criminal. I would also like to se the old GI benefits > > > > > > > > > restored where > > > > > > > > > military service gets you a college education. I would like > > > > > > > > > to see > > > > > > > > > real military service, not Bush's national guard stint, be a > > > > > > > > > prequisite to be commander in chief. I would like to see > > > > > > > > > national > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/memphisfreethoughtalliance?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
