@Garry, Tony, Paul did you tried to use just the AS with the Merb? Any information would be helpful for me if you hit some problems so I'd know what t expect?
@yehuda OK sounds good, thanks for the lengthly and informative response. I appreciate that you guys brought to the Rails ecosystem these healthy changes. Anyway more and more issues seems to be caused by the incompatibilities which makes this a priority to solve for me otherwise the Merb won't be usable for the current users which is after all the most important. Pavel On Jun 30, 6:39 pm, Tony Mann <[email protected]> wrote: > If the hybrid version did not take too long, then I like the idea of doing > that for 1.2 and then ditching extlib in 1.3. If the hybrid turned out to be > tricky or too time-consuming, then I would jump right to ditching extlib. > > Since DM did the hybrid thing, it probably is workable, and we can look to > that code base for inspiration. > > ..tony.. > > > > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Yehuda Katz <[email protected]> wrote: > > Pavel, > > > As part of the general Rails 3 effort, we have put substantial time, energy > > and effort into precisely the sort of long-term guarantees for third-parties > > that you are looking for. For Railties, those guarantees are (of course) > > very focused on Rails applications. > > > For Action Pack, they are focused both on the long-term sustainability of > > the Rails plugin ecosystem and the usage of parts of the various libraries > > for other purposes. In particular, we have fashioned large swaths of Action > > Dispatch to serve as a sort of an enhanced Rack library, and people have > > been using Action View for non-web view rendering for some time. > > > In the case of Active Support, we have pulled out all the stops to make the > > library work well for third parties who simply want some of the Ruby > > enhancements. For shimming Ruby 1.8 and 1.9, we have isolated changes into > > "active_support/ruby/shim". We have made it possible to require any part of > > the Active Support library without knowing its dependencies on other parts > > of the library by mandating that every file in Active Support require its > > dependencies directly. > > > As of Active Support 3.0 final, you can be sure about the following going > > forward: > > > * require "active_support/anything" is a public API. We will not change the > > locations > > of these files going forward without proper deprecation notices, the same > > as when > > we change anything else in Rails. > > * All classes and modules in ActiveSupport are public APIs, and we will not > > change > > the semantics of the public methods on them (unless they are marked as > > private API > > explicitly) > > * we will consider breaking Active Support support for non-Rails third > > parties to be > > equivalent to breaking public APIs used by Rails plugins. > > > The Rails core team is fully committed to Ruby and the Ruby ecosystem going > > forward. We're going to have to prove it, but I am personally committed to > > this effort, and I know that other members of the Rails core team share my > > level of commitment. > > > Yehuda Katz > > Architect | Engine Yard > > (ph) 718.877.1325 > > > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 3:40 AM, Pavel Kunc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Hi, > > >> I wanted to run small poll weather we should switch Merb to AS or not. > >> Now it seems that voices which sounds in this google group wants to > >> move over to the AS. At least how it looks, I'd like to hear more > >> voices, really. > > >> If the Yehuda already did removed the gem dependencies on the gems > >> such as memcache etc which was big problem for me we can start with > >> the either hybrid or pure AS changes. Yehuda wanted to remove these > >> dependencies really quickly at least on the EuRuKo when we had > >> opportunity to speak about that. > > >> Also there is a question if we need any external library such as > >> Extlib or ActiveSupport. The DataMapper seems to get rid of the > >> dependency on both and use it's own inflector. Maybe the way forward. > > >> My only concern is, saying it out loud, that I don't believe the Rails > >> community to care about something outside the Rails at all. I do trust > >> Yehuda but that unfortunately doesn't mean we won't get screwed by AS > >> in the future. > > >> We can make the AS support, I'd vote for the hybrid one, happen in the > >> 1.2 (which is current head). If we decide to remove the Extlib > >> completely I'd like to do it in the 1.3 and leave some time (1.2 - > >> 1.3) as a transition. > > >> Pavel > > >> On Jun 30, 10:11 am, jonah honeyman <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 01:37:08PM -0400, Paul Dlug wrote: > >> > > On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Gary Yngve <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > > > Merb currently requires use of extlib. Unfortunately, many other > >> > > > libraries depend on active_support because of the rails-centric ruby > >> > > > world, so it becomes a burden on the merbist to port libraries over > >> > > > just to get rid of the active_support dependency. Maybe it's time > >> for > >> > > > Merb to be "support-agnostic" and allow for active_support or > >> extlib, > >> > > > as DataMapper has done? (I'm ignorant to if this is happening in the > >> > > > 1.2 branch) > > >> > > I'm facing the same issue, so far I've been able to patch some > >> > > libraries to be more restrictive in their use of AS so as not to stomp > >> > > on extlib but this is short term only. As much as I think AS is > >> > > bloated and awful I think you may be correct that it's time to > >> > > consider a hybrid or just a switch to it. It does look like recent > >> > > cleanups have made it easier to be selective in the AS pieces you use > >> > > ("require 'active_support/all'" is evil). > > >> > Same here :\ > > >> > ActiveSupport's pervasiveness in gems is really getting to be > >> > bothersome. Especially for libs that are only using AS for one or two > >> > things like basic string manipulation. > > >> > > Does anyone have an estimate on what it would take to do a hybrid vs. > >> > > just switching to AS? Any reason to keep extlib around if merb is the > >> > > primary (or only) user? I'd be happy to pitch in with this effort. > > >> > I started looking into it. It is getting more and more necessary to make > >> > the switch to AS (IMHO, at least). While it is probably doable, merb is > >> > so intertwined with extlib that it makes switching pretty annoying. > > >> > I'll be happy to help out as well. Not sure where to start exactly. I > >> > guess removing the dependency for extlib and working from there? > > >> > In any event, this is a +1 for making the switch, or as Gary mentioned > >> > allowing a choice like DM. It would be nice if PK & co. could pipe in > >> > with whether this is realistic or not or if it is already on the agenda. > > >> > > --Paul > > >> > > -- > >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "merb" group. > >> > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected] <merb%[email protected]>. > >> > > For more options, visit this group athttp:// > >> groups.google.com/group/merb?hl=en. > > >> > -- > >> > -jonah > > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "merb" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected] <merb%[email protected]>. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >>http://groups.google.com/group/merb?hl=en. > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "merb" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected] <merb%[email protected]>. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/merb?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "merb" group. 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