Thanks for Grant's good info. I asked about biodiesel in part because this started as the Mercedes Diesel list, in part because the North America is still pretty good a growing stuff, and in part because I doubt we'll ever do better than carbon-neutral. Also, because current ultra-lo sulfur Diesel has poor lubricating properties and even a little bio (like 2%) is a great way to improve lubricity so even the petro industry can get something out of this.
I still don't understand the economics, but it seems to me that the main barrier is that bio is more of a grass-roots thing doesn't fit the business model and mindset (big expensive refineries, big expensive wells, big expensive ships, big expensive pipelines, etc.) of the energy sector. So energy executives could never get multi-million bonuses from low-budget operations, like scavenging waste oil or many small farms growing different indigenous oily vegetables. Or maybe it's a knee-jerk reaction to the dumb ethanol policies. Scott -----Original Message----- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2011 8:22 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] global warming There is plenty of vegetable oil in the world. Palm oil is one that's available in the billions of gallons in nature [think palm trees in third world countries]. The issue is how do you collect and process it to bring it to market in USA or Europe. Same issues for every other veg oil. The support infrastructure simply hasn't been built yet to "feed" large scale production in the billions of gallons,,,, yet. ASTM 6751- XX [the latest - #] spec Bio-Diesel requires no engine modifications to run. It goes from the pump to the end use anywhere Dino-Diesel is used [with some adjustment for gell point]. That is on the plus side. On the negative side. There is not yet enough of it to make much of a splash in the market place. Trucking uses fuel in the millions of gallons per day.. Airlines also... some airliners are being flown with Bio-Diesel on a "test basis"... the military is also using it and has put out contracts for supply. Ethanol, on the other hand, does require engine management system modification to run properly, produces less BTU than gasoline [so you need more gallons to make miles]. The return on energy vs BTU is still marginal... without government money, every Ethanol plant would close in a month. That said.. it's problems are being worked.. in time perhaps, success. Grant... AZ... On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com> wrote: > Several, the answers generally reflecting who funded the study. > > The studies done by big oil or the hater groups say bio-d is terrible and > uses as much energy as it brings in. They'll study using soy oil grown in > the desert with intensive irrigation using deep well pumps and plowed > fields. They'll include factors like recovering sediment that runs off > after they plow or over-water and they'll assume the left over stuff after > they're done is thrown away. > > The bio-d lovers will extract oil from used coffee beans or assume used > oil can be collected in greater volume than actually exists and assume it > isn't used for any other purpose... > > I figure the reality is somewhere in between, bio-d has a use and can fill > a small need. It isn't a silver bullet but a piece of the pie. > > I've read promising sounding results from both extracting oil from coffee > grounds left over from large coffee-drink production and from algae. > Neither is a perfect solution but the results sound hopeful. > > -Curt > > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 12:05:29 -0500 > From: "Scott and Gwen Ritchey" <ritche...@nc.rr.com> > To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <mercedes@okiebenz.com> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] global warming > Message-ID: <76D8FB99810F4D1DB7641B6D9C0FE6CC@ScottPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > Has anyone read an analysis of how bio-Diesel stacks up? Economically? > Energy efficiency (BTU to produce vs BTU produced)? Comparison to other > solar methods? > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
