The Volt would be closer to the silver bullet if it had a Diesel engine (and was engineered/built by MB). Yes, I promote Diesel and MB with the same obnoxiusness that the greenies promote their vehicles of choice, so I'm not throwing stones.
FYI - someone thought that if the battery/motor died, the Volt would be dead in the water - not true. The planetary gear box can drive the wheels with either or both electric or gas engine. It does run on only the gas engine under some circumstances (passing at highway speeds?), but I don't remember the details. I was impressed with the design of the the drive train, but it doesn't tqake a lot fo impress me. On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:29 PM, John Freer <mbfo...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Tim C <bb...@crone.us> wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Allan Streib <str...@cs.indiana.edu> > wrote: > >> Tim C <bb...@crone.us> writes: > >> > >>> I don't understand the animosity of this group toward electric cars. > >> > >> I don't speak for the group, but my problem is that their advocates > >> oversell their advantages (yes, they have some) and undersell their > >> disadvantages (they have many, and some will be difficult if not > >> impossible to solve in the near term). The technology that companies > > > > I don't like listening to Al Gore or Sean Hannity, but that doesn't > > mean they are wrong. We in this group are sometimes wont to oversell > > diesel, I've noticed, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has a > > diesel that mostly drives relatively short distances. > > > > Similarly, with few exceptions the people I've ever met who drive > > original VW Beetles are not folks I would invite to dinner. However, > > I think the technology of the original Beetle was really very > > interesting. > > > >> like Tesla are creating I do find fascinating and inspiring, but not > >> practical. > > > > Again, practical is in the eye of the beholder. Diesel is great for > > long range, electric is great for short, gas is good for... ? See, now > > I'm not sure. :) > > > >> I would not have any problem at all with an electric car that I could > >> drive for hundreds of miles at a stretch and recharge in 5 minutes, and > >> was priced comparable to an internal-combustion powered car. That would > > > > The first computers were really expensive, too, as were the first > > rockets and the first touchscreen mobile phones and the first > > typewriters and the first tires and the first... > > > > Tesla is pushing for just those things; I heard an interview with > > someone from Tesla recently and those were exactly the three issues he > > mentioned. Unfortunately it seems like the newcomers are the only > > ones doing the good engineering; the entrenched manufacturers look > > like they are just retooling existing product lines so they can > > produce a gas/hybrid/electric drivetrain of the same model for > > marketing reasons. That seems awfully inefficient from an engineering > > perspective. When you have a drivetrain that is almost the same - > > like a gas or bigger gas or diesel engine, connecting to a > > transmission and then the wheels - then it makes sense, but when you > > are changing shapes (batteries, chargers, electronics, small electric > > motors, much smaller transmission) then it seems like placement > > optimization is going to lead you to a very different answer. > > > >> be practical. I can understand that some people find a short-range car > >> practical, but I do not, and most people do not, and that's why they are > >> not selling the way their manufacturers and advocates hoped. > > > > I'm not sure that GM, or even Nissan, over-estimated the market. If > > you remember the Leaf there were a lot of waiting lists early on, and > > the Volt had all kinds of dealer shenanigans going on. I don't know > > if you can walk onto a lot and get a Leaf even now - they originally > > discussed that it as an information-mining release rather than a real, > > viable product. The Volt, well, who can read the mind of GM? > > > >> There are no silver bullets. > > > > Is that really true? I mean, symbolically, sure. But after all these > > years hasn't someone made a silver bullet, somewhere? > > > >> I think that the best compromise is probably technology similar to the > >> Volt: a series hybrid, with a simple (relatively) electric drivetrain > >> and battery power for short range trips, backed up by an > >> internal-combustion genset, practical, possible, and eventually > > > > See, and I think the Volt is a horrible compromise. :) I would rather > > have the ability to add a low-density battery for the "run out of > > fuel" events, maybe something like those emergency jump batteries they > > sell at WalMart - if that could get you another 5-10 miles then you > > could get to a real charging point / battery replacement station. > > Adding the extra half-ton + $10K of generator and gas tank and > > whatnot, and carrying them around all the time for the rare > > eventuality where you run out of fuel, seems like overpreparation to > > me. > > > > Of course, I live in a city, and I drive maybe 50 miles in a week, > > almost always within shouting distance of a home or business. I can > > certainly see where others would have different calculations, and > > where the emergency backup generator makes a lot of sense. It would > > just be nice to be able to remove it and/or not buy it, is all. > > > >> affordable. The price is probably the main thing holding back the Volt > >> right now. That and that it's made by GM. > > > > Agree on both counts. > > > > Best, > > -Tim > > Tim, > the Volt's batteries charge to only 80% and discharge with 20% > remaining before the engine/generator take over. As Car and Driver > pointed out, they ran a Volt out of fuel on purpose and still had a > "limp home" mode good for 2 or more miles to get to a gas station. > They did this test because FOX Business News tested the Volt and said > that if it ever ran out of gas, the batteries were shot. They also > reported a charging cost of 16.00 back East which was a simple > mathematical error in their placing of a decimal point...it was 1.60. > Any wonder why the Volt got off to a slow start with this kind of > reporting? > > Lot of folks out here drive to LA in the approved HOV lanes on gas > (about 120 miles) and then convert to battery power only as they creep > around the LA freeways. Gas only engine/generator range is way over > 300 miles. > > Not sure, but isn't this setup similar to how train engines operator today? > > John > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > -- OK Don 2001 ML320 2012 Passat TDI DSG 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager 1957 C182A _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
