A working example which we "free Americans" can look to is the files which still exist, some of which are 70 years old, gathered by the USSR government by the KGB on soviet citizens. Based on that data collected, Stalin is reported to have executed or killed by forced labor in Gulag, some 20 million Russian citizens. Decisions to kill someone or put them to forced labor and remove them from society were based on information gathered and kept by government agency workers and citizen reports.
As Americans, who spent billions of tax dollars to defend against the "prime enemy Russia" for decades, there is a natural abhorrence and resistance to such data collection. Logic would indicate that in the Soviet Communist system, such data was used improperly by our Constitutional standards. Yet..... it seems America has began to repeat exactly that which we fought against... Troubling ..... certainly to those of us who fought the cold war, which was not always so cold. The legal principle that guides all law enforcement, as stated in our founding documents, is "innocent till proven guilty". The burden of proof rests with the accuser, as a function of law properly applied, even then, a prosecutor has a duty to present any evidence that may prove innocence [seemingly ignored presently]. The collection of data, without good cause shown, against an individual, fails the protections of 4th Amendment... in general terms, and has been repeatedly found the rule of law by courts of every level. I agree, civil discourse is much appreciated. On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 9:16 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I was purposely being silly. Should have appended a "winkie" icon to my > post. > > Surprisingly, I think there are broad areas of agreement across the > political spectrum on the need to control how "big data" is collected, used > and destoyed by law enforcement. > > > > > On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > No, silly. > > > > I think this whole situation is such that depending on how you view the > > role of government, you either perceive these actions as protective or > > overreaching. As I see it, much of what is happening today is a result > of > > people trying to control information, for whatever reason. In some cases > > they abuse this control, and that’s when things get out of hand. > > > > While I’m all for try to catch bad guys/gals, if that starts to infringe > > on my rights as an individual I have a problem with it. > > > > The gathering or retention of data is something I personally have a > > problem with, as I think it conflicts with an individual’s right to > > privacy. Gathering license plate data is a good example. If there’s a > > reason for doing it, that is, maybe someone is searching for a particular > > individual who is up to no good or alleged to be so, fine. But once that > > data is collected and searched for the desired person ad results, it > should > > be disposed of. > > > > No matter how stuff like this is viewed, it’s contentious. I don’t see a > > problem with it being discussed here as long as we’re respectful and play > > nice. I think civil discourse is a good thing. > > > > Dan > > > > > > > On Jan 29, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Andrew Strasfogel <astrasfo...@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > So will the "no right to complain" police arrest me for what I write in > > this forum? > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those > > individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner > > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those > individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
