That's hard to believe, given the death grip big oil has on the OK government. Not saying it's not true, just hard to believe.
On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > The deal here is the state is paying them big incentives to build them > here. There is a movement going on to stop it and use the money for school > etc. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Apr 27, 2017, at 3:05 PM, OK Don via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> > wrote: > > > > Out here, the power companies are putting up wind turbine generators at a > > furiuos rate. They don't seem to be able to get enough of them. We still > > see lines of trucks hauling blades up I-35 weekly, probably from Houston. > > There is some economic reason for them to be making this investment. They > > are still preaching at us to reduce our usage, giving away LED bulbs > with a > > home energy audit, encouraging time of use billing to reduce the summer > > afternoon load, etc. Between the wind generation and the austerity on > > summer afternoons, they are avoiding building another coal/steam plant. > > > > Yes, you will always need an on demand generating source to buffer the > > lolls in "green" production - you need both. It's not an all or nothing > > situation. > > > > On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:19 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes < > > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > >> Along those same lines as Craig says…. > >> > >> Most people don’t grasp what goes on behind the scenes at a major > utility > >> when it comes to power production. The utility has to have generating > >> capacity ready and on line for the demand. If they don’t, they have to > >> purchase power from one of their fellow utilities through inter-local > >> agreements, which is very expensive. > >> > >> Add to this the need to have large steam or gas turbines up and running > >> for peak times. From a cold start it can take a steam turbine as much > as > >> 15-18 hours to be up and on line to produce maximum power. That means > in > >> the summer when everyone is going to turn on their AC at home in the > >> afternoon the plant needs to be spooled up and ready to respond to that > >> demand - they will need to have fired up that generator more than half a > >> day in advance to be ready. > >> > >> And what happens if there’s a sudden cold snap? That excess capacity > can > >> be sold off to other utilities who might need it, otherwise it’s > >> effectively lost. > >> > >> This is why utilities pay very close attention to the weather, for > >> example, as well as keeping very precise records to baseline their > >> production requirements. They have to be able to estimate the needs of > >> their customers as closely as possible to run as efficiently as they > can. > >> > >> -D > >> > >> > >>> On Apr 26, 2017, at 8:58 PM, Craig via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com > > > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:02:00 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes > >>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Max wrote: > >>>>> A solar powered version would be even better. > >>>> > >>>> OT - Call centers selling YouNameIt Power are using words like green, > >>>> wind, solar. > >>>> That seems nice, but isn't all the green power just wheeled over the > >>>> grid? i.e. the electrons congregate along with coal and hydrocarbons > >>>> and all power is green mixed with green? > >>> > >>> Yup, that's how it works, if you mean green mixed with conventional. > >>> > >>> There currently is no storage on the grid: When demand increases, power > >>> stations have to crank out more power; when demand increases, power > >>> stations have to decrease the amount of power they are putting out. > >>> > >>> "Green" power is highly variable hour to hour. That appears to > >>> conventional plants as a variable demand in addition to the variation > >>> from actual demand. > >>> > >>> Until "green" power sources are required to have enough storage that > they > >>> can put out a constant amount continuously, they will have to be backed > >>> up with conventional sources, some of which are just idling until the > >>> "green" source drops out. Running a conventional power plant that way > is > >>> very inefficient and wasteful, and generates more carbon dioxide than > >> just > >>> having the conventional plant by itself, tarnishing the "green" of > >>> "green" power sources. > >>> > >>> > >>> Craig > >>> > >>> _______________________________________ > >>> http://www.okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >>> > >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________ > >> http://www.okiebenz.com > >> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > >> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > OK Don > > > > *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many > of > > our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain > > > > "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few > who > > learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence > > for themselves." > > > > WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* > > 2013 F150, 18 mpg > > 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg > > 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! > > _______________________________________ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
