My personal experience with the KC135 ended in 1982. At that time they all still had the original engines. Dutch roll damping was terrible at approach speeds and there was no yaw damper (unlike 707s) but you could use the autopilot yaw channel momentarily to kill the roll oscillation (not the flight manual procedure). Dutch Roll is a coupling between yaw and roll, common with swept wings, for those that don't know. The most amazing thing was the crew emergency egress chute in the cockpit. There was a "chinning bar" that when pulled down jettisoned a hatch. You were supposed to hang from that bar facing aft with your legs tucked up and drop through the hatch (with parachute on, of course). The theory was that tucking knees to chest would prevent you from smacking into the chute when the slipstream hit your legs. I am not aware of any bailout attempts, successful or otherwise. Still an amazing airplane when you consider when the KC was designed. AFAIK only the B52 is the only older (1952) design still on duty.
On December 5, 2021 9:16 AM, Peter Frederick wrote I thought they had finally replaced the engines, long, long overdue. Should make them much easier to fly a low speed, the original 707/KC135 was a handful with poor lateral stability and VERY low power at landing speeds. BOAC rejected the first version because it would not fly without full power on at least one engine on each side -- considering the history of jet engines at the time, and the fact that there was an extra hard point to carry a spare engine on each wing, it wasn't out of the realm of real possibility to have both fail on one side during flight. Turns out even the J57 or equivalent was a very reliable engine BOAC took them after a large ventral fin was added to the tail underneath and the rudder made substantially larger. I don't know if those mods were made to the KC135. Very soon after than they all got P$W turbofans too, which helped at low speed. J57 equipped KC135 or original 707 at full up weight required a 15,000 ft runway and water injection. Upgrading the engines would definitely reduce the takeoff run, probably by a lot. I wouldn't see that as a problem On Dec 5, 2021, at 12:01 AM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > No longer a factor. All surviving KC135s are reengined from the old J57 > turbojet to more modern fan engines with twice the thrust and 25-40% better > fuel specifics. > A classmate (with much KC time) once opined the better engines would only > force them to take off with more fuel from shorter runways. Back in the J57 > days it was typical to offload fuel before take off on hot days (while > taxiing to the runway). > The basic KC EWO mission was to proceed to the assigned orbit and pass gas > until they themselves flamed out or were recalled. > With care, the KC boom could tow an unpowered fighter, done several times in > SEA. > > On\, December 4, 2021 6:59 PM, Peter Frederick wrote > > Good thing my high end hearing isn't good anyway then! Turbojets scream > something aweful! > > On Dec 4, 2021, at 5:52 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes wrote: > >> You ain't heard nuthin 'til you are in the back of a KC135 during a wet >> (J57) takeoff. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Peter Frederick via Mercedes >> Sent: Saturday, December 4, 2021 6:37 PM >> To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> >> Cc: Peter Frederick <psf...@earthlink.net> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - Reboot Your Aircraft >> >> All the low bypass turbojets are noisy. I flew in a British one once, don't >> remember what it was, but it had two Rolls Conways in the back. Very noisy >> engines. >> >> On Dec 4, 2021, at 5:17 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >> >>> When the family first started with Ambassadair, they were still flying >>> 707s. I flew them a couple times. Noisy as heck as I recall. >>> >>> -D >>> >>>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 4:13 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes >>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> The L-1011 was probably the best of that generation, sadly it never sold >>>> as well as the DC-10, which was NOT the best of that generation. >>>> >>>> Beautiful aircraft, and I've heard it was nice to fly as well. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 4:54 PM, dan penoff.com via Mercedes wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I flew on N194AT and N163AT frequently in the early half of the 1980s as >>>>> a member of a “Ambassadair”, later known as “ATA” when it was a private >>>>> travel club. One was a -100 variant, the other a -500 model. Both of >>>>> these were used for international and long-haul domestic flights as well >>>>> as charters. There was a third L-1011 in their fleet but I don’t have >>>>> pictures of it. I think it was destroyed in a ground fire in the late 80s. >>>>> >>>>> My Mom did many, many hours in these as she traveled extensively with >>>>> them overseas. They had at least one DC-10 I know she flew in with them >>>>> as well, they might have had more, I don’t recall. >>>>> >>>>> They were wonderful aircraft, and really impressive when you were >>>>> standing next to them out on the tarmac. >>>>> >>>>> -D >>>>> >>>>>>> On Dec 4, 2021, at 1:33 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes >>>>>>> <mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> L-1011 was the first "big" jet I ever flew in. Boston to Bermuda. Would >>>>>> have been '87 or so. We took a 727 Portland to Boston... >>>>>> >>>>>> Curt >>>>>> >>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2021 at 2:37 PM, Allan Streib via >>>>>> Mercedes<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: L-1011 was very advanced for >>>>>> its time. I believe it was the first commercial airliner with auto-land. >>>>>> If the engines hadn't been sole-sourced wirh Rolls Royce they might have >>>>>> been more commercially viable. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sort of wish Lockheed had stayed in the commercial market but the L-1011 >>>>>> was their swan song. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 4, 2021, at 2:31 PM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes wrote: >>>>>>> Say what you will about the L-1011 or DC-10, you never got the BSOD. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Flaming ACTUAL death on a DC-10, occasionally, yes, but that's >>>>>>> part of the fun. :D >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My first attempt to ride an Airbus was in the early 80s; it >>>>>>> BSODed and we hadda switch to a DC-10. Very comfy ride. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -MMM- >>>>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>>>> >>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>>>> >>>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>>>> >>>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________ >>>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>>> >>>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>>> >>>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________ >>>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>>> >>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>>> >>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> http://www.okiebenz.com >>> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >>> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > _______________________________________ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com _______________________________________ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
