Many thanks for this post, Norman.

I am using it to prove fsumshftd from Mephistolus, by using fsumshft

I tried by myself (but had a distinct problem while using fsumsht with [_ / 
]_  ... I understand now, why I need F/_ and not only distinct vars theorems
So, I started studying your proof (it helps me grow in metamath), I 
understood quite a few things along the way and I am really grateful
Many thanks for that answer.
:)

Olivier


Le samedi 2 novembre 2019 00:33:58 UTC+1, Norman Megill a écrit :
>
> By using one less dummy variable, I found a shorter proof that might be 
> easier to understand, updated at
>
> http://us2.metamath.org/mpeuni/fsumshftd.html
>
> To summarize the proof, we use csbeq1 at step 17 to eliminate the 
> hypothesis fsumshft.5.  This converts the implicit substitution to an 
> explicit substitution version of fsumshft at step 18.  Note that fsumshft 
> requires $d j B, which is not satisfied when we substitute [_ ( k - K ) / j 
> ]_ A for B.  So to avoid a dv conflict, we use dummy variable w instead of 
> j.  We use cbvsumi at step 4 to change w in the fsumshft conclusion to j.  
> Of particular interest is the use of csbied at step 22, which, using the 
> new (weaker) hypothesis fsumshftd.5, gives us [_ ( k - K ) / j ]_ A = B to 
> get rid of the explicit substitution on A and result in B.
>
> Norm
>
> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 1:27:50 PM UTC-4, Norman Megill wrote:
>>
>> Getting back to your original question, we can prove fsumshft with your 
>> modified (weaker) fsumshft.5 starting from directly from fsumshft with the 
>> stronger fsumshft.5.  I show a proof here:
>>
>
>> http://us2.metamath.org/mpeuni/fsumshftdOLD.html
>>
>> To summarize the proof, we use csbeq1 at step 15 to eliminate the 
>> hypothesis fsumshft.5.  This converts the implicit substitution to an 
>> explicit substitution version of fsumshft at step 16.  Next we use cbvsumi 
>> at steps 18 and 25 to change the dummy variables x and y in the fsumshft 
>> conclusion to j and k.  Of particular interest is the use of sbcied at step 
>> 30, which, using the new (weaker) hypothesis fsumshftd.5, results in [_ ( k 
>> - K ) / j ]_ A = B to get rid of the explicit substitution on A and result 
>> in B.
>>
>> The proof is somewhat long.  Maybe someone can find a shorter proof or 
>> devise a library theorem to simplify this conversion.  But given its 
>> current size, this technique probably shouldn't be used routinely just to 
>> allow using fsumshftd.5 for things other than simple substitutions, unless 
>> the size savings in the target theorem's proof compensates for the size of 
>> the fsumshftd proof.
>>
>> Norm
>>
>> On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:18:40 PM UTC-4, Olivier Binda wrote:
>>>
>>> Why doesn't fsumshft.5 have a ph -> part like other hypotheses ? 
>>>
>>> fsumshft.5 [image: |-] [image: (][image: j] [image: =] [image: (][image: 
>>> k] [image: -] [image: K][image: )] [image: ->] [image: A] [image: =] 
>>> [image: 
>>> B][image: )]
>>> Is the same theorem with ( ph -> ( j = ( k-K ) -> A = B ) )  false ? or 
>>> stupid ? or unnecessary ?
>>>
>>> It looks stronger to me as I probably cannot prove it easily from 
>>> fsumshtf
>>>
>>> I am still grasping at all the subtleties of Metamath, so I may not 
>>> understand something important here.
>>>
>>> Could someone please enlighten me ?
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Olivier
>>>
>>

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