You're welcome. :)  Norm

On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 10:23:09 AM UTC-5, Olivier Binda wrote:
>
> Many thanks for this post, Norman.
>
> I am using it to prove fsumshftd from Mephistolus, by using fsumshft
>
> I tried by myself (but had a distinct problem while using fsumsht with [_ 
> / ]_  ... I understand now, why I need F/_ and not only distinct vars 
> theorems
> So, I started studying your proof (it helps me grow in metamath), I 
> understood quite a few things along the way and I am really grateful
> Many thanks for that answer.
> :)
>
> Olivier
>
>
> Le samedi 2 novembre 2019 00:33:58 UTC+1, Norman Megill a écrit :
>>
>> By using one less dummy variable, I found a shorter proof that might be 
>> easier to understand, updated at
>>
>> http://us2.metamath.org/mpeuni/fsumshftd.html
>>
>> To summarize the proof, we use csbeq1 at step 17 to eliminate the 
>> hypothesis fsumshft.5.  This converts the implicit substitution to an 
>> explicit substitution version of fsumshft at step 18.  Note that fsumshft 
>> requires $d j B, which is not satisfied when we substitute [_ ( k - K ) / j 
>> ]_ A for B.  So to avoid a dv conflict, we use dummy variable w instead of 
>> j.  We use cbvsumi at step 4 to change w in the fsumshft conclusion to j.  
>> Of particular interest is the use of csbied at step 22, which, using the 
>> new (weaker) hypothesis fsumshftd.5, gives us [_ ( k - K ) / j ]_ A = B to 
>> get rid of the explicit substitution on A and result in B.
>>
>> Norm
>>
>> On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 1:27:50 PM UTC-4, Norman Megill wrote:
>>>
>>> Getting back to your original question, we can prove fsumshft with your 
>>> modified (weaker) fsumshft.5 starting from directly from fsumshft with the 
>>> stronger fsumshft.5.  I show a proof here:
>>>
>>
>>> http://us2.metamath.org/mpeuni/fsumshftdOLD.html
>>>
>>> To summarize the proof, we use csbeq1 at step 15 to eliminate the 
>>> hypothesis fsumshft.5.  This converts the implicit substitution to an 
>>> explicit substitution version of fsumshft at step 16.  Next we use cbvsumi 
>>> at steps 18 and 25 to change the dummy variables x and y in the fsumshft 
>>> conclusion to j and k.  Of particular interest is the use of sbcied at step 
>>> 30, which, using the new (weaker) hypothesis fsumshftd.5, results in [_ ( k 
>>> - K ) / j ]_ A = B to get rid of the explicit substitution on A and result 
>>> in B.
>>>
>>> The proof is somewhat long.  Maybe someone can find a shorter proof or 
>>> devise a library theorem to simplify this conversion.  But given its 
>>> current size, this technique probably shouldn't be used routinely just to 
>>> allow using fsumshftd.5 for things other than simple substitutions, unless 
>>> the size savings in the target theorem's proof compensates for the size of 
>>> the fsumshftd proof.
>>>
>>> Norm
>>>
>>> On Monday, October 28, 2019 at 5:18:40 PM UTC-4, Olivier Binda wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Why doesn't fsumshft.5 have a ph -> part like other hypotheses ? 
>>>>
>>>> fsumshft.5 [image: |-] [image: (][image: j] [image: =] [image: (][image: 
>>>> k] [image: -] [image: K][image: )] [image: ->] [image: A] [image: =] 
>>>> [image: 
>>>> B][image: )]
>>>> Is the same theorem with ( ph -> ( j = ( k-K ) -> A = B ) )  false ? or 
>>>> stupid ? or unnecessary ?
>>>>
>>>> It looks stronger to me as I probably cannot prove it easily from 
>>>> fsumshtf
>>>>
>>>> I am still grasping at all the subtleties of Metamath, so I may not 
>>>> understand something important here.
>>>>
>>>> Could someone please enlighten me ?
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Olivier
>>>>
>>>

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