On 1/5/2013 9:25 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:
I should add: my first two categories are types of falls, whereas the last three are types of finds.Jeff On 1/5/2013 8:12 AM, Jeff Grossman wrote:In all seriousness, I have considered refining, or at least qualifying the definition of "fall." The categories I've considered are these, and the definitions are first passes:Observed fall: observed to fall, either visually or with instruments, and collected soon after the event. The event was well documented. Physical evidence associated with the collected meteorites is consistent with a fresh fall, or, when collection does not occur immediately, directly points to a fall at the time of the observed event.Unobserved fall: No observations were made of a fall event, but physical evidence conclusively points to a fall on a specific date or within a very narrow range of dates.Probable fall: In these cases, there was a well-documented meteor event with characteristics consistent with a meteorite fall, followed by the collection of meteorites some time later. There is a strong likelihood that the meteorite fell in the observed event, but physical evidence is not fully conclusive.Possible fall: The same situation as a probable fall, but there is significant doubt about whether the meteorite is connected to the event or about the reliability of the observations of the event.Doubtful fall: The same situation as a possible fall, but there is a high degree of doubt.This was all suggested by the circumstances surrounding the Benešov (a) and (b) meteorites, which I would have put in the "possible fall" category, if such a thing existed.Jeff
On 1/4/2013 8:57 PM, Michael Farmer wrote:I find this new attempt to change terminology disturbing. I have hundreds of old catalogs from the top museums and dealers from more than 200 years ago till today, all of them list falls and finds. None of them discuss unobserved falls as an acceptable alternative. Are we really ready to just accept anything thrown out there, and watch as all manner of BS is used to discredit hundreds of years of accepted terminology? My private collection focuses on witnessed falls, with date and time and science to back it up. I am not interested in another group which would include every meteorite ever to have fallen, since they did actually all fall at some point. Well, I guess Anne can delete her birthday fall calendar page since now we can simply put every NWA on any date you choose to believe it might have possibly fallen:).Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:47 PM, "Mike Bandli" <[email protected]> wrote:If a meteorite falls from the sky and no one is there to hear it, does itmake a sound? ;^] ---------------------------------------------- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -----------------------------------------------This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. Ifyou are not the intended recipient you are notified that disclosing,copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents ofthis information is strictly prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 5:36 PM To: Anne Black Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day Right, Anne. That is why they are referred to as a "Fall" or a "Find". Concise! Cheers, Fred HallEvery single meteorite ever found on Earth is necessarily the result of a fall, they are not native to Earth. The only difference is that some falls are seen, witnessed, and some, the vast majoriry, are not. So calling them Observed or Unobserved falls is logical. That is what happened to all of them. That is simple reality. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [email protected] -----Original Message----- tFrom: hall <[email protected]> To: Michael Farmer <[email protected]> Cc: meteorite-list <[email protected]>; valparint <[email protected]> Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 6:13 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the DayAn "unobserved fall" is two words to describe the one word that hasbeen used for a century, "Find". The one word "Find" is good enough for the Catalogue of Meteorites, it was good enough for Harvey Nininger, and it is what I shall always use. Keep it concise. Regards, Fred Hall That would make sense for say New Orleans, where a stone went through ahouse and no one in their right mind would suggest that it did notfall atthat time say between 8 am and 4 pm when there was no hole in thehouse,yet it was not seen to fall. An old rock found in a field does not suggest anything about falldate. Soit is a find, something never really argued against until now?It has crust which can suggest it is not thousands of years old, mostofour Springwater meteorites have black and blue crust but neverthelessitis a find. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jan 4, 2013, at 10:28 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:An "unobserved fall" is, well, a fall that was not observed, in contradistinction to a fall that was observed. The terminology of the Meteoritical Bulletin Database is "Observed fall: no". The information being conveyed is NOT that the meteorite fell butthatthe fall was not observed. In general, the questions about falling and finding are: 1) was the fall observed? 2) if so, when was it observed? 3) if not, is there any guesstimate of when it fell? 4) regardless of weather it was observed or not, when was it actually found? Paul Swartz MPOD webmasterWhat is an "unobserved fall"? Every meteorite fell at some point. Ihave thousands of unobserved falls in my collection. 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