Hello Carl and List,
Carl brought up some excellent questions. To answer as briefly as possible,
but without a single word reply, I will try to explain a little bit of my
dislikes with self pairing to Classified material.
I have had many different meteorites classified over the years. I typically
wait quite a bit of time to pass before I offer these publicly, two years in
the case of my new Lunar, NWA 4932, which I just announced this week. I wait
for a couple reasons:
1) To let the different investigating scientists glean as much possible
information about the meteorite in order to offer an accurately classified
meteorite.
2) Wait and see if any more material surfaces to try and get an accurate
Total Known Weight (TKW).
It seems once I do announce a new meteorite, "guaranteed pairings" start to
be offered by different Moroccan stone traders. On occasion this may be
accurate, but MOST of the time it is not the case! You can not say just from
photos if something is "paired". A recent example is when I announced a new
diogenite, my Moroccan partner later sent me "guaranteed pairings" to this.
After receiving four stones, it was clear that three of the four were NOT
paired, and were something else. To make sure of this, I cut all four stones
and then sent them to the lab to be examined, at MY cost! One turned out to
be paired, the other three were not, they were; one terrestrial rock and the
other two were rotten chondrites. This just goes to show that visual
pairings are to be avoided.
It is becoming more of a problem at the different Shows. Examples are:
1) NWA 2995, a classified lunar. Many "self pairings" hit the scene, some
were actually paired after scientific examination, but even more were not
lunar! In fact, I purchased one of these that "Looked" like 2995. After
cutting it and sending the type sample in for classification to get my own
NWA number as a pairing to 2995, I was informed that it was NOT a lunar, but
a Maskelynite-rich Eucrite, cool in itself, but NOT lunar. More of these
stones became available by the Moroccans and "Guaranteed" as Lunar of 2995.
I was sent samples of several of these that turned out NOT to be lunar and I
then informed these different Moroccans. I learned later that they sold
these as TRUE LUNAR stones and sadly I found out that several friends got
screwed by these Moroccans who were informed that those particular stones
were NOT lunar. They simply did not care and went to an unsuspecting victim.
This is one of the things that upsets me the most.
2) The Moroccans who offer classified material at the shows, stating, "These
stones are paired to NWAxxxx". I have heard of many examples of this
practice, and in many cases collectors are holding unclassified material
which may, or may not even be meteorites!
3) Even if material offered is indeed the same as what they claim, the
material still needs to be verified and the weight entered to keep the
Official Total Known Weight (TKW) accurate. This is another pet peeve of
mine. I often wonder why I should give up "another" 20 grams (or 20%) of a
planetary meteorite when the original type sample should be plenty. Oh yah,
I like to make sure what I offer is AUTHENTIC and to keep the TKW accurate
as possible!
These are a few of the issues that set me off. I am very passionate about
what I do and try to keep it as accurate as possible. When games and fraud
is perpetrated by those who do not care about the science or collectors, I
get upset and tend to be vocal.
If I seem too quick to reply, or type a single word in haste or anger, I
apologize to all who are offended by my posts. I think it is important to
keep it real, and really keep it honest and accurate!
I believe it is part of my responsibility to keep it real and to give notice
to those who do not!
Best regards,
Greg
====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl 's" <carloselgua...@hotmail.com>
To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments from Canada
toMorocco?
Hi Greg, Aziz, All,
I would like to thank Aziz and others on their informative input on buying
meteorites from Morocco.
I'm confused about this pairing of meteorites and I think Greg touched on
this briefly. This has been bugging me since I started collecting. I don't
want to start a flame war so please, PLEASE think twice before hitting the
send key on this reply.
Take for example a dealer/collector buys a 300g stone from Morocco, gets
it classified and it is named NWA 9999, a very, very rare Diogenite.
Later, more stones are found and it sure looks like NWA 9999. I understand
the original 300g stone is NWA 9999 but the others found later should be
considered paired unless it has the lab work and documents to back it up.
Using this logic, all subsequent finds of Holbrook, Franconia, Gold
Basin,...etc. should be considered pairings and not in fact Holbrook,
Franconia, Gold Basin? Is this because these meteorites have established
strewn fields, respectively, but the NWA meteorites do not? How can anyone
be sure a stray meteorite has not fallen and was collected in these U.S.
strewn fields without cutting it or lab work done on each? Perhaps an
experienced meteorite hunter would know the difference but what of a
novice like myself?
Carl
Greg wrote:
"...Treat the meteorites right; as in, accuracy of type, TKW,
self-pairings
(fraud), etc., and you will not have problems!!!"...
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