Dear List Members,
To clarify and/or add to my previous post "Self-Pairing = No-No!":
Where I wrote,
"It seems once I do announce a new meteorite, "guaranteed pairings" start to
be offered by different Moroccan stone traders."
I am NOT referring to my new lunar, NWA 4932 which I just announced this
week. Nobody has self-paired to that one [yet]. If there were any more of
it, suspect stones would have surfaced before now.
This actually brings up another example, when NWA 482 first came out, it
seemed that ALL of the Moroccans had more of 482, all were proved wrong and
was just wishful thinking on the part of get-rich quick stone traders. There
are NO pairings to NWA 482!
This was also the case when NWA 5000 was announced a couple years ago. It
again seemed that all of the Moroccan stone traders had MORE of it. In fact,
at the Tucson Show a couple years ago, certain disruptive stone traders
claimed to have a 17-kilo pairing to it. They knew that that 17-kilo stone
was a EUCRITE because months before I paid to have a sample analyzed from
that stone! Again, they did not care and wanted to sucker an unsuspecting
victim in. I can say that the 17-kilo eucrite now resides in a prominent
public collection because of the efforts of an honest and generous Canadian
collector!
Best regards,
Greg
====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[email protected]
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Hupe" <[email protected]>
To: "Carl 's" <[email protected]>;
<[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 5:33 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Self-Pairing = No-No!
Hello Carl and List,
Carl brought up some excellent questions. To answer as briefly as
possible, but without a single word reply, I will try to explain a little
bit of my dislikes with self pairing to Classified material.
I have had many different meteorites classified over the years. I
typically wait quite a bit of time to pass before I offer these publicly,
two years in the case of my new Lunar, NWA 4932, which I just announced
this week. I wait for a couple reasons:
1) To let the different investigating scientists glean as much possible
information about the meteorite in order to offer an accurately classified
meteorite.
2) Wait and see if any more material surfaces to try and get an accurate
Total Known Weight (TKW).
It seems once I do announce a new meteorite, "guaranteed pairings" start
to be offered by different Moroccan stone traders. On occasion this may be
accurate, but MOST of the time it is not the case! You can not say just
from photos if something is "paired". A recent example is when I announced
a new diogenite, my Moroccan partner later sent me "guaranteed pairings"
to this. After receiving four stones, it was clear that three of the four
were NOT paired, and were something else. To make sure of this, I cut all
four stones and then sent them to the lab to be examined, at MY cost! One
turned out to be paired, the other three were not, they were; one
terrestrial rock and the other two were rotten chondrites. This just goes
to show that visual pairings are to be avoided.
It is becoming more of a problem at the different Shows. Examples are:
1) NWA 2995, a classified lunar. Many "self pairings" hit the scene, some
were actually paired after scientific examination, but even more were not
lunar! In fact, I purchased one of these that "Looked" like 2995. After
cutting it and sending the type sample in for classification to get my own
NWA number as a pairing to 2995, I was informed that it was NOT a lunar,
but a Maskelynite-rich Eucrite, cool in itself, but NOT lunar. More of
these stones became available by the Moroccans and "Guaranteed" as Lunar
of 2995. I was sent samples of several of these that turned out NOT to be
lunar and I then informed these different Moroccans. I learned later that
they sold these as TRUE LUNAR stones and sadly I found out that several
friends got screwed by these Moroccans who were informed that those
particular stones were NOT lunar. They simply did not care and went to an
unsuspecting victim. This is one of the things that upsets me the most.
2) The Moroccans who offer classified material at the shows, stating,
"These stones are paired to NWAxxxx". I have heard of many examples of
this practice, and in many cases collectors are holding unclassified
material which may, or may not even be meteorites!
3) Even if material offered is indeed the same as what they claim, the
material still needs to be verified and the weight entered to keep the
Official Total Known Weight (TKW) accurate. This is another pet peeve of
mine. I often wonder why I should give up "another" 20 grams (or 20%) of a
planetary meteorite when the original type sample should be plenty. Oh
yah, I like to make sure what I offer is AUTHENTIC and to keep the TKW
accurate as possible!
These are a few of the issues that set me off. I am very passionate about
what I do and try to keep it as accurate as possible. When games and fraud
is perpetrated by those who do not care about the science or collectors, I
get upset and tend to be vocal.
If I seem too quick to reply, or type a single word in haste or anger, I
apologize to all who are offended by my posts. I think it is important to
keep it real, and really keep it honest and accurate!
I believe it is part of my responsibility to keep it real and to give
notice to those who do not!
Best regards,
Greg
====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[email protected]
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl 's" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2009 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments from Canada
toMorocco?
Hi Greg, Aziz, All,
I would like to thank Aziz and others on their informative input on
buying meteorites from Morocco.
I'm confused about this pairing of meteorites and I think Greg touched on
this briefly. This has been bugging me since I started collecting. I
don't want to start a flame war so please, PLEASE think twice before
hitting the send key on this reply.
Take for example a dealer/collector buys a 300g stone from Morocco, gets
it classified and it is named NWA 9999, a very, very rare Diogenite.
Later, more stones are found and it sure looks like NWA 9999. I
understand the original 300g stone is NWA 9999 but the others found later
should be considered paired unless it has the lab work and documents to
back it up.
Using this logic, all subsequent finds of Holbrook, Franconia, Gold
Basin,...etc. should be considered pairings and not in fact Holbrook,
Franconia, Gold Basin? Is this because these meteorites have established
strewn fields, respectively, but the NWA meteorites do not? How can
anyone be sure a stray meteorite has not fallen and was collected in
these U.S. strewn fields without cutting it or lab work done on each?
Perhaps an experienced meteorite hunter would know the difference but
what of a novice like myself?
Carl
Greg wrote:
"...Treat the meteorites right; as in, accuracy of type, TKW,
self-pairings
(fraud), etc., and you will not have problems!!!"...
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