In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.
Benjamin Franklin
For me there is enough smoke.
:-)
Martin
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von
[email protected]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. September 2010 23:41
An: Martin Altmann; [email protected]
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Origin of Tektites
Martin,
Thank you for being in agreement with me.
As you point out in this link.
There is no smoking gun there.
I like the way the charts look so similar.
Problem is they don't show any other reference rocks for there comparisons.
Basalt's included from a couple of Known Planets might have made a better chart.
Why would they not put Earth and Earth's Moon on the same charts for comparison
with the Mars rocks?
And how do they know those rocks are not meteorites themselves? They know the
Irons they have found are meteorites..
Okay, we can assume they are Mars rocks since they are on Mars. But,
This is how people make points without really proving a point.
Kind a like showing a chart with a mouse and an elephant side by side in order
to prove they are the same.
The chart could say.
They both have eyes. Check
They both have skin. Check
They both have tails. Check.
etc etc, etc...................."Houston, we have a match".
Not.
In other words we could do better than that.
I know we also both agree that these rocks came from Mars.
There is a chart that exists in an abstract that I have seen that shows all of
the meteorites and the rovers all together on a single chart and none of them
match exactly even with each other so nobody expects a perfect match. Just
Earth rocks should maybe have been on their charts. Or maybe not.
NASA has it's purpose. I like everyone else would love to have samples from all
of these planets in hand. It would make the Science much better.
We have not yet figured out tektites and lightning yet and they are both right
here so there is no rush here.
What I would like to see is a simple test that would determine an Earth rock
from an Achondrite. Too many earth rocks look like meteorites.
NWA 5400 looks just like a brachinite but it is not one and looks also a lot
like a chassignite which looks a lot like an Earth dunite. Randy's pages add
tons more to that short list of look a likes. We won't even mention the Lunar
look a likes.
I hunt more than most people. Have been doing so, for 21 years. Just 5 finds in
all that time. Not too good considering I live in AZ. but I still have huge
piles of unclassified prospects in my back yard. Waiting to become recognized.
as from Venus and Mercury and I hope I have a few from our Moon.
Thanks.
Carl
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- Martin Altmann <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Carl
>In fact we cannot know with 100% certainty that we even have rocks from Mars.
http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040414a.html
'Bounce' and Shergotty Share Common Ground
This illustration compares the spectrum of "Bounce," a rock at Meridiani
Planum, to that of a martian meteorite found on Earth called Shergotty.
Bounce's spectrum, and thus mineral composition, is unique to the rocks studied
so far at Merdiani Planum and Gusev Crater, the landings sites of the Mars
Exploration Rovers Opportunity and Spirit. However, the results here indicate
that Bounce is not a one-of-a-kind rock, but shares origins with Shergotty.
Shergotty landed in India in 1865. Bounce's spectra were taken on sol 67 by
Opportunity's Mössbauer spectrometer.
Meteorite Linked to Rock at Meridiani
This meteorite, a basalt lava rock nearly indistinguishable from many Earth
rocks, provided the first strong proof that meteorites could come from Mars.
Originally weighing nearly 8 kilograms (17.6 pounds), it was collected in 1979
in the Elephant Moraine area of Antarctica. The side of the cube at the lower
left in this image measures 1 centimeter (0.4 inches).
This picture shows a sawn face of this fine-grained gray rock. (The vertical
stripes are saw marks.) The black patches in the rock are melted rock, or
glass, formed when a large meteorite hit Mars near the rock. The meteorite
impact probably threw this rock, dubbed "EETA79001," off Mars and toward
Antarctica on Earth. The black glass contains traces of martian atmosphere
gases.
The Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity has discovered that a rock dubbed
"Bounce" at Meridiani Planum has a very similar mineral composition to this
meteorite and likely shares common origins. Bounce itself is thought to have
originated outside the area surrounding Opportunity's landing site; an impact
or collision likely threw the rock away from its primary home.
'Bounce' and Martian Meteorite of the Same Mold
These two sets of bar graphs compare the elemental compositions of six martian
rocks: "Bounce," located at Meridiani Planum; EETA79001-B, a martian meteorite
found in Antarctica in 1979; a rock found at the Mars Pathfinder landing site;
Shergotty, a martian meteorite that landed in India in 1865; "Adirondack,"
located at Gusev Crater; and "Humphrey," also located at Gusev Crater. The
graph on the left compares magnesium/iron ratios in the rocks, and the graph on
the right compares aluminum/calcium ratios. The results illustrate the
diversity of rocks on Mars and indicate that Bounce probably shares origins
with the martian meterorite EETA79001-B. The Bounce data was taken on sol 68 by
the alpha particle X-ray spectrometer on Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity.
Best!
Martin
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] Im Auftrag von
[email protected]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. September 2010 20:05
An: Aubrey Whymark
Cc: meteoritelist
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Origin of Tektites
Aubrey,
Thank you for that.
As a critical thinker I believe you have to go with the odds until proven
otherwise.
I mean even Stephen Hawking thinks there is life elsewhere. This in spite of
the fact that we have zero evidence to back up that claim.
He recently stated that he believes a "God" would not have been necessary for
life to have begun here on Earth. Again, this conclusion was made based on a
gazzillion missing pieces to the puzzle. A few facts and a lot of beliefs.
The truth is that, that is how Science works. It is based as much on beliefs
as actual facts in evidence. ie, so far no evidence of life elsewhere. In fact
we cannot know with 100% certainty that we even have rocks from Mars. I believe
that we do but, my opinion does not make it so. We have not sampled the
atmosphere of every other alternative out there yet so, until we do there is no
way to be certain. In fact we now know that other space rocks actually share
Earth's O isotopes. This makes the puzzle pieces even greater in numbers.
So, when you look at Tektites, the obvious origin is Earth. That is possibly
until scientific facts get in the way. So far it seems the facts are leaning
in the direction that tektites originated on Earth.
The $10,000 dollar question in most of our minds is only; How they formed?
Science tells us what it would take to form tektites but, not how. The how is
still a mystery depending on whom you believe.
It seems to me based on all of the opposing opinions by really smart people
that, we have no proven answer. Yet.
For this and many other reasons, namely process of elimination, I lean towards
the lightning related causes.
Lightning still being a relatively unknown phenomenon it seems to have room to
squeeze tektites into it's realm.
Maybe even lightning associated with a volcano as seen recently in the
Icelandic volcano Eyjafjallajoekull, or Eyjafjöll, where there is clearly
photographic evidence of lightning
erupting in an upward direction from the ground up into the sky during it's
eruption process.
I am told that lightning is one of the least understood phenomenon on Earth.
my conclusion so far is Lightning is the culprit. Maybe!
My 2 grams.
Carl.
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
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