From: Martin Altmann <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
To: [email protected]
Date: Friday, December 3, 2010, 10:34 AM
Hi there,
Well Phil, we simply don't know it - aaand that's why we
have to look for
it!
I see also a nice side-effect in the press conference by
NASA - some
advertizing, always necessary to get the budgets passed.
Remember - the
announcement of the supposed fossil remnants in ALH84001,
even by president
Clinton - when did it take place? And when started
the great Martian
renaissance with all these incredible successful orbiters
and rovers?
And if you keep in mind, that sample-return-mission
projected, if it will be
realized, will be after the ISS and the space shuttle
missions, the most
expensive mission, the most costly planetary space-probe
ever.
Hopefully it will be done. And until then, we have to
take potluck with the
Martian meteorites we have already.
hi Greg & Greg,
could you please reconcile your differences off-list?
Greg H. - I guess Greg C. simply didn't get the joke,
because he isn't aware
of the funny story of Haag, Zagami and ALH84001.
And Greg C.
I know that you sometimes support the notion, that we're
all in meteorites
only for the money.
Though the meteorite prices are not endangered by new
scientific recoveries.
Much more they are endangered, because still some
meteoricists and some
clerks haven't recognized yet the direct correlation of
find
rates/availability of meteorites and the legal situation in
the countries,
they were and shall be found.
You can observe already now the step-back and the regress
in newly found
material due to always new restrictions. Check the
bulletins, what for a
decline we have the very last 3 years in newly recovered
unpaired
planetaries.
And regarding especially the Martians, I'm not sure how
long you're in
meteorites, but they already doubled, tripled, quadrupled
in price during
the last 4 years, because of that.
And sooner or later, the collectors, hunters and dealers
won't know anymore,
how they still should supply the universities and museums
further, with
affordable, but rare and scientifically significant new
materials.
And really the least university institutes are in such a
likewise
comfortable financial situation like e.g. the Smithsonian
or London - but
nevertheless are urgently wanting to work on such
materials.
And we all agree, the more scientists have the opportunity
to do their
research on a meteorite - the better.
So Greg C. - you have to appeal with your worries not to
Jim or Greg H.,
but to such people like Dr.Bevan, the successor of al
Kathiri, Dr.Chennaoui,
Dr.Zuccolotto, Dr.Planche, (or in your country, those who
initiated these
new BLM-land restrictions) and others, who seem to actively
support the ban
of private involvement and with that the ban of new
meteoritic recoveries..
..and thus tossing not only the national meteorite research
of their
countries into a crisis, but global meteoritics too. Thus,
in the end they
are restricting the freedom of research.
They urgently need some enlightenment about that, what
they're doing and the
consequences, which they are not able to see. I really
hope, that this topic
will be on the agenda at the next MetSoc meeting in Perth.
Because today we have already very often the situation,
that the important
new recoveries of special meteorites are gladly welcome by
all meteorite
researchers, but on the other hand and in the same breath
some scientists,
not so seldom even some, who work on these very meteorites
or use the
results of the work on these meteorites done by colleagues,
claim these very
finds to be products of criminal activities and call the
finders and those
persons involved to bring the stones into the labs and
institutional
collections criminals.
If we don't manage to resolve this pervert schizophrenia -
and that
immediately -
then the meteorite research in that extent and quality, we
were used to the
last two decades - won't have any future.
And Greg C., it is easy to forecast, that absolutely
independently from
whether E.T.'s car key of his spacecraft will be found in a
Martian
meteorite or not,
that in 5 years we'll have 1000% surcharges on the prices
we had the last
decade,
and not only on Martians but on quite all meteorites - and
even more
precarious, we won't then have anymore that variety of
those new meteorites,
which are exceptional and important for meteorite science,
if we don't stop and partially reverse that trend.
Huh Greg C., simple & very little example from
yesterday, take that EL4
we're blowing out as our X-mas gratification for the
collectors,
10 bucks a gram, still very nice chondrules
- in the coming years you simply can forget such a price
and such a stone at
all.
Antarctica isn't really an alternative - in 34 years only
200grams found of
such.
And else 6 finds from the hot deserts, mainly as a result
of the enormous
work, the private sector had done.
Historically seen - you know it, the two DaGs cost minimum
15 times more,
or if you go to the ELs in general - it's not so hefty
weathered like the
classics Happy Canyon, Yilmia or that stone, with which
everything began a
decade ago, NWA 002 and what for prices you have to pay for
them, you know
too.
(Sooo, and to turn back to the title line, to crimp more
advertizing in that
posting, cause we're all in only for the mammon and finally
to calm your
fears Greg C. about the Martian prices to come,
we'll distribute after the little EL4 main mass will have
gone, the very
last two slices of 4925, quite the wildest and most
colorful shergottite of
all, that with the pseudo-orangettes - but not here on the
list - and that
at the prices we had years ago).
Martian greetings!
Martin
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Im Auftrag von
JoshuaTreeMuseum
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Dezember 2010 06:11
An: [email protected]
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Martian Meteorites
I'm pretty sure the raison d'etre behind the Mars Missions
is to look for
life or signs of biological activity. I know they're
looking for water, but
why? Could it be because 70 to 90% of a living organism is
water? Water is
the prime ingredient and habitat for life. Something like
80% of all Earth
fossils are marine. From the very beginning, they've been
looking for signs
of life. The search for water is a subset of the main goal
of looking for
life. Mariner 4 calculated that liquid water could
not exist on Mar's
surface. The Viking orbiters were looking for signs of
ancient water to
determine if life could have existed in the Martian past.
Since they figured
out that multicellular life was a no go, the Viking probes
went to Mars in
the 1970s to specifically look for single-celled organisms
and organic
matter. The Phoenix lander of 2008 had two goals: look for
life supporting
habitable zones and of course, to look for geologic signs
of water. All the
future Mars missions on the drawing board have one purpose.
To look for
signs of life! So far none of the evidence has met the
criteria and
parameters for exo-biologic origin. Humans are a lonely
herd. We just can't
believe that we're all alone. It's hard to accept that the
closest, most
Earth-like planet we can imagine is a cold, desolate,
lifeless place.
-----------------------------
Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people
have. (SW)
Phil Whitmer
----------------------------
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