Danny Ayers wrote: > On 24/04/07, Manu Sporny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> collection: a non-localized, unstructured grouping of items. >> list : a localized, structured grouping of items. > > Hmm, <ul> is semantically an unordered grouping...
Almost correct. <ul> is a /localized/ unordered grouping. We are attempting to find a way to do both non-localized, localized, structured and unstructured grouping of items. <ul> + xoxo solves the problem of localized unordered groups. <ol> + xoxo solves the problem of localized ordered groups. Both the scenarios above don't solve the problem of grouping items like so: <ul> <li>Related Item 1</li> <li>Related Item 2</li> </ul> ... A text or HTML ... <ol> <li>Related Item 3</li> <li>Related Item 4</li> </ol> How can we show that all four of those items are in the same group? We need to provide support for the following: ???? + xoxo needs to solve the problem of unlocalized unordered groups. ???? + xoxo needs to solve the problem of unlocalized ordered groups. > I take your point, though I would have thought it better to use > something like: > > <div class="this_is_a_microformat"> > <ul class="class_of_the_items"> Perhaps, but remember - we're trying to see if we can solve the problem in a general manner. If we re-invent the 'group' for every Microformat, we'll end up with a great deal of grouping cruft that doesn't need to be there if the problem can be solved in a general way. >> The following is needed beyond the examples you gave: >> >> - The ability to relate items that are not local to one another in an >> HTML page. > > doesn't this do that: > > <ul> > <li>here</li> > <li><a href="#elsewhere">an item</a></li> > </ul> It kinda does do that. There are two reasons I think that proposal is not desirable: 1. You are creating a 1-1 relationship, not an N-N relationship. URLs can only point to a single location, thus they are incapable of providing grouping information by themselves. 2. You are constraining the site design by forcing the need to use a URI. It doesn't give the site designer an option - it's the Microformat way or the highway at that point. >> - The ability to relate items on an unstructured basis. > > Sorry, I don't understand what you mean - isn't a collection a > structure by definition? A collection and a list are both structures by definition, yes. I should have used different vocabulary to define the concept. When I said structured - I was talking about a strict hierarchical representation. The XML and HTML text formats have a strict hierarchical representation. They are deterministic data structures. They are lists. When I said unstructured - I was talking about a loosely coupled association. An example of this is the concept of a Set in mathematics. These are collections. Did that help clarify what was meant by "unstructured"? -- manu _______________________________________________ microformats-new mailing list [email protected] http://microformats.org/mailman/listinfo/microformats-new
