Roz is the author, Jack. -Doug
On Wed, Jul 23, 2025 at 10:53 PM Jack Keady via Mifnet < mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > Keady - sadly the writer of this factual message came in unidentified. I'm > guessing someone learned and respected like Jeff Shane or even Mister > Mifsud. > > No matter, my criticism was not the process but the bombast. > > Traditionally, as the Peru negotiations illustrate these matters are > negotiated by the striped pants crowd (no disrespect intended) in a quiet, > civilized, but tough manner, as far as i know. Something like "this is what > we want and if we don't get it, this is what's going to happen". And if > there is an impasse, then we follow through. I ask "when was the last time > a bilateral dispute made the media?" > > Here we have bombast, threats, raging huge print headlines" Headlines are > for the sadness in Gaze, the Air India crash and Stormy Daniels. Not some > front page bullying. > > Thanks for the reply and analysis. I say this is a perfect example about > why the Mifnet exists > > > > On Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 04:35:59 PM PDT, Mail Admin via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > > Jack, For three years the U.S. Government attempted to "handle" this > dispute through diplomatic channels, high-level meets between > ministers/secretaries, and informal discussions between civil aviation > experts. Over that period of time the U.S. repeatedly warned the Government > of Mexico and the two airlines that joint venture ATI could be terminated > for Delta-Aeromexico. That dispute also was the basis for suspending the > procedural schedule on the Allegiant/Viva Aerobus ATI application. The > Government of Mexico, from my perspective, essentially has stone-walled > the USG and its concerns for those three years. If Mexico is able to > resolve this dispute within days, it should have done so a long time ago. > > I was at DOT when the USG terminated the U.S.-Peru air service > agreement and commercial flights by U.S. and Peruvian airlines between the > two countries ceased. The dispute that time was over the Peruvians' refusal > to authorize Braniff International's fifth freedom flights from Lima to > other countries in South America. Those fifth freedom rights were > specifically authorized under the U.S.-Peru agreement, so Peru was in > direct violation of its bilateral obligations. Several face-to-face > diplomatic negotiations were held to settle the dispute with no resolution. > I do not remember the precise length of time air services were suspended > between the U.S. and Peru, it could have been a year or more. The USG > essentially told the Peruvians at the last "diplomatic" meeting to "give us > a call" when they had changed their position. > > I distinctly remember receiving short notice to get on the next > VARIG flight from LAX to Lima (ironically as a fifth freedom passenger) to > join DOT Assistant Secretary Matt Scocozza in an emergency meeting > requested by Peruvian authorities to reach a settlement and new agreement > which included approval of Braniff's fifth-freedom schedule by Peruvian > authorities. When Braniff received official notice of approved schedules, > direct flights between the U.S. and Peru were allowed to resume. In case > you are interested, I was in Los Angeles at the time visiting relatives, a > real blessing because my flight was non-stop, and on VARIG. Matt, who was > in DC, had to journey on three separate flights, one DC to Miami, and two > on foreign airlines through third countries to get to Lima. Rgds, Roz > > On Wednesday, July 23, 2025 at 03:08:35 PM EDT, Jack Keady via Mifnet < > mifnet@lists.mifnet.com> wrote: > > > keady asks "couldn't this have been handled by the people at DOS like > we've done ofr 10 years. > > Although, having said this, does anyone remember when we had a conflict > with Peru (I think) and went for a year or two with no nonstop service > Peru- U.S. Anyone enlighten me on that? > > > Mexico expects to resolve aviation dispute with US within days > > Mexico is planning on compromising with the U.S. over sticking points on > aviation, the nation's president said on Tuesday, with one airline > predicting that an agreement would come in the next few days. On Saturday, > the U.S. Department of Transportation rolled out orders requiring Mexican > airlines to submit flight schedules and threatening to reject requests if > the Mexican government did not address U.S. concerns over flight changes in > Mexico City. U.S. officials also proposed scrapping antitrust immunity for > the joint venture between Delta Air Lines and Aeromexico to address > competitive issues. Kylie Madry/Reuters > <https://ytezitcab.cc.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0016A9EkDdVgUrrJ0zxStsr74INeK_UNuMhRDGKnTiP2I-knMlMKJdOsWWUQ-WRjkvz5CMZnGYf7npaqQoJjEC0axBKTVb_zW63h12wjCm79qFJPS3wD_CMMXgmS65ar06SRhUs8MD8TNIVq0mYKvTpT2eLJVql6FiKazx6gxZL0LWZEcSl5-E9IY_eM_G37oQu0OA8wX-dlWjd4qcTUbLJH024WEphuI1Lazy7c2yts16gOOSPlcP0Vx1dbdqvh0RDfT-I4LdfAXpZPUZu_vb4nkBZvwtBsGm1cgsZwBg4iqiHXucUEbZADQ==&c=hzbLD2E4mGg9kVgVuzqqQ1_GCDC3ITVSGfMDt6gCPHf16XAuDNPTag==&ch=luIHzoIwYHaiFGsOYkSgPDFajvMwIAPebgVBrI6AGFqH2bxq8YaY_w==> > Related: US cargo airlines welcome DOT aviation sanctions on Mexi > <https://ytezitcab.cc.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=0016A9EkDdVgUrrJ0zxStsr74INeK_UNuMhRDGKnTiP2I-knMlMKJdOsWWUQ-WRjkvzMk2cBfxhEmhG2ttRqBCSTJ5hSP2huoL1xz4p19RHx5Qt6vqd97_AGGRkjYlfNVf7KLP0xW2bKn-chokvDrcxKD6jLPno2ZGqmHeGujo3j4ArviPUFYtjNw2Paj76lrcVYK6PtUYNUw26K6mq2hmvkyfNs8TVtPOMZjRYuWOF_wS-Sk8PCTckfQ==&c=hzbLD2E4mGg9kVgVuzqqQ1_GCDC3ITVSGfMDt6gCPHf16XAuDNPTag==&ch=luIHzoIwYHaiFGsOYkSgPDFajvMwIAPebgVBrI6AGFqH2bxq8YaY_w==> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Revised: 20250507 > > You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. > > The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't > exactly cost-free. 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-------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revised: 20250507 You are receiving The Mifnet because you requested to join this list. The Mifnet is largely a labor of love, however the infrastructure isn't exactly cost-free. If you'd care to make a small contribution to the effort, please know that it would be greatly appreciated: https://wardell.us/url/mifbit All posts sent to the list should abide by these policies: 1) List members acknowledge that participation in Mifnet is a privilege--not a right. 2) Posts are always off the record, absent specific permission from the author. 3) The tone of discussions is collegial. 4) Posts are expected to be in reasonably good taste. 5) We discuss ideas and not personalities, and we don't speak ill of other Mifnet members. * The Mifnet WEB SITE is: https://www.mifnet.com/ * To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list at any time please visit: https://lists.mifnet.com/ OR: SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=leave * Send Mifnet mailing list POSTS/SUBMISSIONS to: mifnet@lists.mifnet.com * You may reach the person managing The Mifnet at: mifnet-ow...@lists.mifnet.com * Please consider the DIGEST version of The Mifnet, which consolidates all list traffic into 1-3 messages daily. See instructions at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * Manage your personal Mifnet SUBSCRIPTION at: https://lists.mifnet.com/ * For a list of all available Mifnet commands, SEND THIS MESSAGE via email: mifnet-requ...@lists.mifnet.com?subject=help * View The Mifnet LIST POLICIES and PRIVACY POLICY at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/policies * View instructions for Mifnet DELIVERY PROBLEMS at: https://mifnet.com/index.php/delivery-problems * View The Mifnet LIST ARCHIVE at: https://lists.mifnet.com/hyperkitty/list/mifnet@lists.mifnet.com/
