Chetan,
We discussed this on the developer call this morning. Jakub is going to
review the spec this week - he is still confident this will be part of
Release H.
Thanks again for all the work in consolidating the many requirements that
came in through the community.
Ed
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 9:44 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Copying the developer list as well. Can we please review this
> specification and see if this can be a part of release H. There is a lot to
> this requirement ( as suggested by Ryan) and it will require some efforts
> to get this done for Release H. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Chetan ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Bekkinkeri, Chetan
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 17, 2012 1:20 PM
>
> *To:* A good place to start for users or folks new to Mifos.
> *Subject:* RE: [Mifos-users] Functional Requirements for Automated
> Penalties/Late Fees****
>
> ** **
>
> Hello all, ****
>
> ** **
>
> I have further updated the functional specification with a few more use
> cases and also have taken care of the comments. Summary of changes below *
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> **1. **Added use cases for****
>
> **a. **Removal of penalty from a loan product ****
>
> **b. **Removal of penalty already applied to a loan account using
> the “remove” function ****
>
> **c. **Repay loan option to include the penalty calculated with
> option for removal****
>
> **2. **Separated the savings use cases from the loan product.
> Savings penalty will be handled in a different functional specification **
> **
>
> **3. **Added details on the validations for the penalty creation –
> negative numbers, mandatory values etc ****
>
> **4. **Added the list of fields to be added to the penalty
> definition to a new section 9 at the end of the document ****
>
> **5. **To simplify the functionality, we will currently apply
> penalty only to loans and savings account. In comparison, fees are
> applicable to loans, clients , groups or centers. ****
>
> **6. **From my understanding of the various requirements
> documented, I think it is better to keep penalties completely different
> from Fees. This is because the way the fees get applied to an account may
> be different from a penalty and there is a need to differentiate that
> aspect. Also the repayment order will be
> Penalty->Fees->Interest->Principal. (Does anyone in the community have a
> different idea here ?)****
>
> ** **
>
> I couple of open questions which may need to be answered are ****
>
> ** **
>
> **1. **What Mifos BI reports will the penalty functionality
> addition effect ?****
>
> **2. **What is effect of holidays on the penalty calculation ?****
>
> ** **
>
> I still need to add some screen mockups to the specification but while I
> do that, I thought the community review the specifications and give some
> feedback.****
>
> ** **
>
> Link for the spec below. ****
>
> ** **
>
>
> http://mifosforge.jira.com/wiki/display/MIFOS/Functional+Spec+Automatic+Application+of+Late+Payments+Penalties
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> Chetan ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Ryan Whitney [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 07, 2012 4:14 AM
> *To:* A good place to start for users or folks new to Mifos.
> *Subject:* Re: [Mifos-users] Functional Requirements for Automated
> Penalties/Late Fees****
>
> ** **
>
> Chetan,****
>
> ** **
>
> Great start! I especially like all the examples you detailed on how the
> penalty should be applied, super helpful. I've made some edits and added
> in some inline comments/notes (Marked in red with a TODO) - I will also
> call some out below and I'll also post these comments to the page as well.
> I've been looking at it for over an hour, so going to take a break now,
> let you take a look and make some edits, then let me know and I'll do
> another pass.****
>
> ** **
>
> You can also view my edits by clicking here:
> http://mifosforge.jira.com/wiki/pages/diffpages.action?pageId=14909950&originalId=14910007
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> Although I'll warn you, its in wiki markup.****
>
> ** **
>
> *So, General Comments:*****
>
> ** **
>
> 1. I see that you are doing this for loans and savings. It might make
> sense to break the savings out as a separate Spec since it operates a bit
> differently (maybe the Devs can comment). What do you think? Also, how
> many MFI's are asking for this on savings? Might be easier to do loans
> first and then savings later.****
>
> ** **
>
> 2. I see the requirements on how to create the penalties are in the
> Functional Requirements section - I'm a little worried these are light -
> where are the details on the limits for the fields? What errors need to be
> added? These might warrant their own Use cases.****
>
> ** **
>
> 3. Some screen mockups would be helpful for this document I think****
>
> ** **
>
> 4. It's very important we stress the difference between fees and penalties
> in this product as that affects the order on how payments are applied. Are
> we sure this will be ONLY a penalty? (IE, paid before Fees) - You also talk
> somewhere about changing the payment order? That's not clear what that
> entails.****
>
> ** **
>
> 5. I updated Use cases 4.1 and 4.2 - I've been looking at this for awhile,
> so taking a break. Look at those and see what you think, I was trying to
> flesh out a bit more. I also think you were a bit confused on what the
> validation part is for. See if that makes sense and we can alter the rest
> and add more. ****
>
> ** **
>
> *Some Open Questions (for you and the community)*****
>
> ** **
>
> 1) Do we want to break out penalties from Fees in the UI? This would be
> in the admin page, loan creation, savings creation, etc. For now, I've
> updated as it saying Fees/Penalties in the document, but I see here that
> you list it as a new section in the Admin page. If we decide to separate
> it, remove the (Late Fees) section as Penalties could apply elsewhere and
> aren't just limited to late payments. Personally, I'm inclined to keep
> them together, but that may create more design/coding issues.****
>
> ** **
>
> 2) Is this for Individual only? Can you apply this to groups? Centers
> (for savings accounts) - We may need a lot fleshed out here as well -
> should be specific here.****
>
> ** **
>
> *In response to your Questions*****
>
> ** **
>
> 1) This would mean re-opening a loan and applying a one time penalty? Or
> is this to go back and change records entered in the past? I think the way
> to do this would be to add an option on the closed loan page to "Add
> Penalty", and after going through the workflow, the loan would be
> re-activated and the fee applied. This might be a lot of work - could be
> some accounting considerations to think of.****
>
> ** **
>
> 2) I'm not sure I'm clear on this question - but off the top of my head I
> see there being two kind of late payment penalties. One is based on the
> number of days you are late and the amount that is late, right? So every
> day I'm late, it incrementally goes up. The second option I see is that a
> general penalty is add whenever I'm late (Missed a payment, get knocked 5,
> miss another, get knocked another 5). Does that sound about right?****
>
> ** **
>
> 3) I noted in the document that I don't think you need to get specific
> about that - instead you need to detail how you expect this to work and the
> devs will figure out if it needs to be a batch job or something else (I
> believe the desire is to move away from batch jobs...)****
>
> ** **
>
> 4) Good question - I can see both being useful. Cumulative makes sense,
> especially in regards to a maximum penalty. But the limit per penalty
> application makes sense too as a lot of organizations have a fee that is
> stated as the user either pays X or a percentage of the amount overdue,
> whichever is higher. Do we have any feedback from users how they'd like
> this applied?****
>
> ** **
>
> *Last Comment* - One thing to consider and maybe some of the devs can
> weigh in is how can we simplify the feature? I only say this as there is a
> LOT to this, I'm not sure this will be a simple job based on all the detail
> I see in the spec and what more we need to add. May just be quicker to get
> something simpler in first (that meets most needed requirements), start
> getting users to use that and work on the next version that gets more into
> the weeds. Just a thought.****
>
> ** **
>
> Ryan****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> On Jan 6, 2012, at 1:08 AM, <[email protected]> <
> [email protected]> wrote:****
>
> ** **
>
> Dear all,****
>
> ****
>
> I have come up with a DRAFT version of the FS for this functionality and
> have tried to cover as many scenarios as I can taking into consideration
> the inputs from Mifos 3384 and other general Mifos requirements. Here is
> the wiki link to the FS****
>
> ****
>
>
> http://mifosforge.jira.com/wiki/display/MIFOS/Functional+Spec+Automatic+Application+of+Late+Payments+Penalties
> ****
>
> ****
>
> I am sure this will undergo more changes based on feedback from the users.
> Can you please go through the Wiki and let me know if there are changes
> required or if some feature which you as an user wanted but has not been
> addressed ?****
>
> I do have a couple of open issues which I have marked red and also have
> listed below the issues.****
>
> ****
>
> 1) How can we adjust Penalties for loans which are closed? ( this
> requirement is being requisitioned by multiple users) . Any pointers
> /workarounds here will be useful.****
>
> 2) Need to review the savings penalty calculations? If two
> consecutive mandatory deposits are missed, do we apply one single penalty
> or multiple penalties?. For loans, we have clear use cases which we can
> look up to from the banking scenario but not sure for savings.****
>
> 3) Batch job for penalty calculations : do we create a new batch job
> or modify one of the existing batch jobs for this ?****
>
> 4) How do we want to handle the minimum and maximum penalties ?
> Should we have a cumulative limit on the penalties or a limit per penalty
> application ? Right now I have added the cumulative case and made the use
> case examples for it.****
>
> ****
>
> Kindly review the FS and let me your feedback so that we have
> comprehensive FS for this functionality.****
>
> ****
>
> Thanks****
>
> Chetan****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
> *From:* Ed Cable [mailto:[email protected]]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 30, 2011 11:53 PM
> *To:* A good place to start for users or folks new to Mifos.
> *Subject:* [Mifos-users] Functional Requirements for Automated
> Penalties/Late Fees****
>
> ****
>
> Mifos Users,****
>
> ****
>
> The community is coming together in strong force. One of the oft-requested
> features they are currently tackling is the need for automated late
> fees/penalties.****
>
> ****
>
> SolDevelo will be taking on development of this feature for the next major
> release, Release H. Chetan from SunGard Technology Services in India (cc'd
> on this email) is going to be consolidating requirements and drafting a
> clear functional specification.****
>
> ****
>
> There are many variations in which the MFIs assess, accrue, and collect
> fees/penalties for being late so we want to build the feature to be as
> comprehensive as possible while minimizing complexity.****
>
> ****
>
> Currently inputs are being tracked through this issue -
> http://mifosforge.jira.com/browse/MIFOS-3384. We'll also have a wiki
> page up soon for the functional spec.****
>
> ****
>
> Any users who will be using this feature, please share your processes and
> requirements for assessing late penalties by commenting on the issue,
> responding to this thread, or attaching a requirements document to the
> issue.****
>
> ****
>
> Thanks,****
>
> ****
>
> Ed****
>
> ****
>
> ****
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex
> infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to
> virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual
> desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure
> costs. Try it free!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox_______________________________________________
> Mifos-users mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mifos-users****
>
> ** **
>
> ---------------------------------------****
>
> Ryan Whitney****
>
> [email protected]****
>
> US mobile: +1.206.734.5110****
>
> global: +1.206.235.4479****
>
> ** **
>
> "The real malady is fear of life, not death" - Naguib Mahfouz****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
> The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
> is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
> Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
> Mifos-developer mailing list
> [email protected]
> Unsubscribe or change settings at:
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mifos-developer
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep Your Developer Skills Current with LearnDevNow!
The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers
is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3,
Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now!
http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-d2d
_______________________________________________
Mifos-users mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mifos-users
