Wow! Nice to see you again, Justin. This is a particularly interesting point:
"The real issue is not which fundamentalist interpretation is correct but whether the alternative to them is viable." What do you mean by viable? I'm wondering, because I see no problem whatsoever with throwing out all fundamentalist interpretations with a healthy exhalation, and living my life completely free of them. This seems perfectly viable to me. On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Justintruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > One of the things I hear is that we are infinite in the sense that the > universe is physically infinite. Whether it is infinite or finite and > unbounded is a valid question but I think the infinity that > Shakespeare is referring to is not infinite in that sense of the word. > It's not infinite in the sense of "big without bound". > > The term infinite is a negation but it is a negation of boundaries. > The "finis" in the second part of the word is roughly "boundaries". > Infinite then becomes without boundaries with the usual meaning a > special case. In mathematics the concept of infinity has been > separated from the concept of "without boundary" and there are finite > and unbounded sets. But here we are speaking in the traditional - pre- > topological - sense. > > One then learns that the process of establishing boundaries is > critical in the experience of experience as a space in which there are > things. In fact "raising the object from the background" requires that > we establish that part of experience that "is" or at least "is > something" from that which "is nothing". The boundary is that surface > where being ends and nothing begins (or at least another being). That > which is not is space - a complete vacuum. This occurs when one > interjects nothingness into ones experience. This is why the vacuum is > - exactly - nothing. Even though modern physics has moved beyond these > concepts superficially it still maintains them albeit in modified > form. After all when we proclaim the presence of the so-called vacuum > energy we are distinguishing it from a "true" vacuum in the pre- > quantum sense. > > The cessation of that interpretation, and the transcendence beyond > space (and time) found fleetingly in mystical experience is the > foundation of our immortality, our infinity, and our likeness to god. > When space and time cease one experiences the truth that the universe > is not distinct from us and in fact, in a sense we include it in us as > much as it includes us in it, and one experiences god. > > Kierkegaard's reference is particularly fascinating. His cataloging of > the various modes of despair associated with the various possible > relationships of infinity to the finite in us presumes a kind of > identity that unifies the infinite and the finite in a sense. As the > proverb says: "At first I saw a tree and it was a tree, then I saw a > tree and it was the Tao, then I saw the tree and it was a tree." > Ultimately, we are who we are with all of the finite limitations of > our biology. We are a particular person with particular talents and > capabilities. Yet we have this capacity to interpret our life in a > sacred and not profane way. Kierkegaard's analysis of despair as sin, > especially his analysis of what he calls demonic despair, the despair > that is lucid and deliberate is most interesting. It would have been > interesting to be a fly on the wall of Hitler's mind to see if his > "banality" was superficial and to find out whether in fact he was not > completely aware but so totally in despair that he deliberately caused > such suffering. Perhaps it was not a coincidence that he choose the > Jews as the object of his hatred. Perhaps, at root it was hatred of > god. Perhaps he wanted to be chosen and felt he was not. His relative > asceticism, as compared to the orgy of indulgence in some of his > supporters, seems to indicate that his soul was aware at some level. > Ultimately it is not for us to judge but it would be interesting to > know. It would have been equally interesting to be in Martin Luther > King's mind when he went through his own motel-room Gethsemane. I > wonder how he overcame his own despair and went on living the life he > did when he could have just quit and had fun with the women around him > instead of accepting the bullet. > > So I think this issue is at heart the issue of an interpretation of > our experience and when the ratio of those who have been enlightened > to those who have not becomes high enough (if it ever does) perhaps we > will then be able to face the real questions and not waste time > quibbling over fundamentalist interpretations. > > The real issue is not which fundamentalist interpretation is correct > but whether the alternative to them is viable. > > > n Feb 10, 6:33 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > "Give me my robe, put on my crown; I have Immortal longings in me," > > Shakespeare instructs us. But do we? Is there a part of us that is > > infinite, or is immortality just a longing? There are at least parts > > of our beings that are infinite, according to Shakespeare: "What a > > piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how infinite in > > faculties, in form and moving how express and admirable, in action how > > like an angel, in apprehension how like a god." > > > > Our infinite nature is not just fodder for the poets. Einstein came > > to the conclusion that "the infinite nature of man includes the > > universe." Kierkegaard explained our existence in this way: "Man is a > > synthesis of the infinite and the finite, of the temporal and the > > eternal, of freedom and necessity, in short a synthesis. A synthesis > > is a relation between two factors. So regarded, man is not yet a > > self." > > > > What do YOU think? > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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