I agree Slip, belief can be a powerful filter for experience. I am wondering about intervening in a karmic reaping. How would one know? What if it is the exorcist's karma that compels him to become the exorcist? Often, events driven by karma are the result of karmic relationship. According to Dr. Brian Weiss, what often leads people to explore past life regression are the problems of difficult relationships, and the quest for answers about them. I, myself, explored past lives looking for answers about my problematic relationship with my youngest son. I will say that, given the broad view of the soul connection, the relationship spontaneously improved without any outward communication. I was impressed with that result. It also changed my perspective on many other aspects of life.
On Mar 22, 1:01 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > I guess there would be some news report about the flying suitcases > which must have been witnessed by others, or was he the only person on > the train? I have felt at times that certain incidences in my life > were the result of a spiritual attack, to thwart my intent or > direction at the time. Not exactly flying suitcases but highly > traumatic to the point of instilling a sense of serious apprehension > upon considerations towards involvement in certain activities. I > would have to be personally compelled and driven by personal need to > take part in something that may incite an irruption. My beliefs stem > from personal experience, not from literal translations of historical > accounts or offerings from religious communities. Prior to those > experiences, I shared the understandable doubt of such things and > relegated them to simple fantasy and imagination. Through the 60's a > new awareness began to take hold and in retrospect I saw that many > such occurrences took place even as far back as my single digit age. > At this time in life I wonder if it is wise to intervene in a > situation that might be the result of someones karmic reaping. People > think we can rectify every situation that has gone awry in the lives > of others without consideration that we may be challenging a much > greater force. While still harboring specific reservations I guess it > all comes down to ones beliefs Molly, as you say you think it is all > true and others think it is movie magic. > > On Mar 22, 10:33 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I knew a priest who claimed to be on a train, going to the exorcism > > that William Blatty's book was based on. As Father Bill tells the > > story (and I had several discussions with him), there were suitcases > > and other things flying on their own across the train at this priest > > before he ever got to the exorcism. Father Bill was a cool guy, a > > family man, a very well known and respected priest in the Chicago > > Archdioceses. I have known (and currently know one) Catholic Priests > > who were exorcists throughout my life. It is kept quite hush hush by > > the church but the men I know are bright and strong and very well put > > together. I guess you would have to be. I think it is true. But > > then again, I think it is all true - and perfect for the level of > > consciousness in operation. In the big picture, there is only > > Brahman. In microcosm, anything is possible. > > > On Mar 22, 7:54 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I like William Peter Blatty's The Exorcist. Unlike the movie, the > > > book never commits to supernatural forces. The telekinesis part of > > > the story is a little freaky but a smart girl could have figured out > > > how to fool a terrified mom. It's more about a priest's doubt and a > > > neuritic mom then anything else. And fear of the unknown, of course. > > > All in all, a quick, interesting read. > > > > dj > > > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 6:00 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Lack of exhibition does not substantiate the claim. Evil does not > > > > imply that a newborn should immediately do a 360 headspin, hiss and > > > > spit blood out at you. This in no way indicates that evil does not > > > > exist within a person or that it may manifest at a later date and > > > > time, especially if there is intent, such as may be the case with > > > > little Tim Kretschmer and Thomas Sullivan Jr (link). > > > >http://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/11/nyregion/boy-kills-mother-and-himse... > > > > There are numerous other examples of course and whether or not they > > > > are attributed to evil is speculation without any means of > > > > establishing factual evidence. > > > > The argument of evil, or the evil argument, remains problematic in > > > > that we can only deduce from a set premise only to reach a fallible > > > > conclusion. We cannot prove or disprove the existence of evil but > > > > only present assertions laden with ambiguity and perplexities and > > > > there are no uniform opinions on the matter other than those of > > > > segmented groups within society that deem evil existence as a > > > > necessity to their function. Maybe we can simply eradicate evil > > > > entirely by ruling out its existence through euphemistic tactic and > > > > rid ourselves of it for good and the world can live in peace, and find > > > > closure, of course. lol :-) > > > > > On Mar 21, 7:04 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Because they exhibit zero evidence of such. They exhibit only evidence > > > >> that they are hungry, tired, or uncomfortable, and when the > > > >> appropriate stimulus is applied, they become peaceful. Have you ever > > > >> seen behaviour from an infant that you consider to be truly mean > > > >> spirited that could not be more accurately attributed to another more > > > >> common infantile behaviour? > > > > >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 5:24 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > Infants aren't mean spirited.<<<CJ > > > > >> > How do you know this? > > > > >> > On Mar 21, 10:34 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > >> > wrote: > > > >> >> "Mean Spirited" typically goes hand in hand with either "spoiled", > > > >> >> "neglected", or "abused". > > > > >> >> Infants aren't mean spirited. > > > > >> >> On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:29 AM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> >> > She boiled her baby because a series of > > > >> >> > childhood traumas and negative adult life events led her to a > > > >> >> > crystal > > > >> >> > meth addiction which so impaired her judgement that she quite > > > >> >> > literally lost her mind. Neither of these hypothetical examples > > > >> >> > is in > > > >> >> > any way supportive of the concept of innate evil. <<<CJ > > > > >> >> > Actually she was a mean spirited little girl whose parents sent > > > >> >> > her > > > >> >> > off to live in a convent under the loving care of nuns who > > > >> >> > nurtured > > > >> >> > her into a tender loving woman, so kind and sweet she was, until > > > >> >> > that > > > >> >> > day came, the day that no one understands, the day that she > > > >> >> > killed her > > > >> >> > husband and boiled her baby.................but the scientific > > > >> >> > community said it was just postpartum disorder, a simple hormonal > > > >> >> > mood > > > >> >> > swing, not to worry. > > > > >> >> > On Mar 20, 11:39 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > >> >> > wrote: > > > >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> > > > >> >> >> wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > How can something be both innate, and learned?<<CJ > > > > >> >> >> > I see a problem here on the interpretive level. > > > > >> >> >> > I said clearly......... "As much as we can accept the > > > >> >> >> > (possibility) > > > >> >> >> > that good and > > > >> >> >> > evil are innate qualities embedded in the psyche , we (can't > > > >> >> >> > rule out) > > > >> >> >> > that "forces/energies" beyond our physical space can have or > > > >> >> >> > attempt > > > >> >> >> > influence upon our action. > > > > >> >> >> > The content is clearly not a statement of absolutes. What is > > > >> >> >> > unrecognized are the variable aspects of innateness, ie; the > > > >> >> >> > degree of > > > >> >> >> > the good/evil personae. Take for example a crime witness > > > >> >> >> > quote "I new > > > >> >> >> > he was bad but I didn't think he was capable of such a heinous > > > >> >> >> > act". > > > >> >> >> > OR "I know she was a bad mother but don't understand what > > > >> >> >> > possessed > > > >> >> >> > her to boil her baby". > > > > >> >> >> ...and I opened with a reference to Russell's Teapot. "Not > > > >> >> >> ruling out" > > > >> >> >> leaves a wide swath for speculation. I recognized that you > > > >> >> >> specifically weren't making an absolute statement. I'm referring > > > >> >> >> to > > > >> >> >> the concepts of good and evil, which are themselves statements of > > > >> >> >> absolute judgment. The crime witness statements you are talking > > > >> >> >> about > > > >> >> >> are not some recognition of any real quality, but an example of > > > >> >> >> cognitive bias on the part of the witness. > > > > >> >> >> > So there is a "degree" of innate good/evil but in reiteration, > > > >> >> >> > we > > > >> >> >> > can't rule out the forces/energies can have or attempt > > > >> >> >> > influence on a > > > >> >> >> > person. > > > > >> >> >> You've moved now into a QED follow up without ever having > > > >> >> >> supported > > > >> >> >> your initial statement. I see nowhere where you have > > > >> >> >> demonstrated from > > > >> >> >> the hypothetical witness statements how that supports an idea of > > > >> >> >> an > > > >> >> >> innate good or evil. > > > > >> >> >> He was capable of such a heinous act because he was a > > > >> >> >> progressively > > > >> >> >> degenerative schizophrenic. She boiled her baby because a series > > > >> >> >> of > > > >> >> >> childhood traumas and negative adult life events led her to a > > > >> >> >> crystal > > > >> >> >> meth addiction which so impaired her judgement that she quite > > > >> >> >> literally lost her mind. Neither of these hypothetical examples > > > >> >> >> is in > > > >> >> >> any way supportive of the concept of innate evil. > > > > >> >> >> Also as had been discussed early in the thread, the > > > > >> >> >> > interpretation of good/evil is in how it is defined. So what > > > >> >> >> > I'm > > > >> >> >> > trying to get at here is that a person can have qualities that > > > >> >> >> > are > > > >> >> >> > innate and yet be influenced by said other. Might hatred be > > > >> >> >> > innate > > > >> >> >> > but not murder? > > > > >> >> >> innate > > > >> >> >> Adjective > > > >> >> >> existing from birth, rather than acquired; inborn > > > > >> >> >> Where would hatred be stored in an infant? Have you seen some > > > >> >> >> research > > > >> >> >> somewhere that suggests a "Hatred Gene"? > > > > >> >> >> > You state factually "We are taught what good and evil are, not > > > >> >> >> > born > > > >> >> >> > with it." <<CJ > > > > >> >> >> > That is a matter of opinion, one that I disagree with. > > > > >> >> >> Actually, no. That is a matter of the preponderance of scientific > > > >> >> >> thought in the psychological, sociological, and anthropological > > > >> >> >> fields > > > >> >> >> based on clinical and field study. You are free to disagree with > > > >> >> >> the > > > >> >> >> conclusions drawn, but understand > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
