...and still not the absolute! :-)
On Jun 25, 9:15 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> The power to destroy a thing is absolute control over it......
>
> read more »
>
> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:39 AM, frantheman
> <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > And how would House Johnson deal with the Fremen? Are you prepared for
> > everything planned by Molly's Missionaria Protectiva (aided by the
> > Mentat, Archytas)? Not to mention Tinker's Face Dancers, along with
> > Chris Muad'Dib Jenkins and his sister, Gabby "the Knife". Me, I'm
> > dreaming Spice Dreams with Slip, who's an expert!
>
> > On 25 Jun., 15:41, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > And we could call this life Melange. The spice of knowledge. House
> > > Johnson to control production and distribution. A race of former
> > > humanoids twisted by massive dosages of the Spice learn to bend space
> > > and travel is reinvented. Yeah.
>
> > > dj
>
> > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 4:31 AM, archytas<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > There's been a recent wall built on the question of how we might
> > > > better believe what we know. One of my guesses follows Popper in that
> > > > we can't know now what we will know in the future. Say this small
> > > > moon of Saturn in the news does have an ocean and life. Say we can
> > > > expand our brains by eating this life and there is an expansion
> > > > similar to that alleged in our progression from common ancestors that
> > > > didn't affect the other apes in the same way. We might actually be
> > > > able to see through the madness, understand travel in different ways
> > > > and so on (bit like a video game). On the other hand, if we could
> > > > stop fighting each other, maybe life would change anyway ...we don't
> > > > bother with this latter much, seemingly oblivious to just how much the
> > > > future could influence thinking and our lives.
>
> > > > On 25 June, 07:01, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >> It's a Humpty Dumpty ism, but all truth knows that one replaces
> > > >> another and another in succession to maintain the position on the
> > > >> wall. Scrabblers pile the bricks and mix the mortar and then wonder
> > > >> why the wall is so high and out of reach.
>
> > > >> On Jun 25, 12:31 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > >> > A very apt version of the conundrum Gabby. I think we are dealing
> > > >> > with madness and consequently a rationality of the mad. Habermas
> > was
> > > >> > slated for providing too much of an answer, thus becoming just the
> > > >> > next 'rule-giver', just another intellectual telling us what we
> > should
> > > >> > do. I just want us not to have to scrabble about making livings and
> > > >> > get rid of the over-powerful. It just seems so damned difficult to
> > > >> > even try.
>
> > > >> > On 19 June, 17:32, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > I don't know. To think one can promote lying in a society is as
> > naive
> > > >> > > as thinking one can promote truing the society. In the world you
> > speak
> > > >> > > of, the child is encouraged to publically shout out that the
> > Emperor
> > > >> > > is naked while being expected to quietly learn the taylor's job in
> > > >> > > their chambers. What is it you're really after?
>
> > > >> > > On 19 Jun., 15:11, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > Habermas is almost impossible to read, which is a great shame.
> > > >> > > > Academic critique of his work actually ends up rather like
> > Gabby's few
> > > >> > > > lines, extrapolated to ridiculous length. He was gazetted into
> > the
> > > >> > > > Hitler Youth at the end of the war, something that only goes to
> > show
> > > >> > > > we can all end up serving perverse human interests. Francis'
> > notion of
> > > >> > > > what might happen through wider communication and the possible
> > > >> > > > differences new technologies might bring to 'argument' is
> > probably key
> > > >> > > > to whether we have a future or not. There has been a debate
> > around
> > > >> > > > legitimation portrayed in academe as between Habermas, Lyotard,
> > > >> > > > Derrida, Foucault and others. My own view is that the insularity
> > of
> > > >> > > > this debate (most people have barely heard of it and its
> > protagonists)
> > > >> > > > is itself part of the problem. Press in the UK has been
> > ridiculing our
> > > >> > > > unworthy politicians through expense claims leaked to one
> > newspaper.
> > > >> > > > Today, Parliament has "published" the details under so much
> > black ink
> > > >> > > > that we would know less had we been left to rely on official
> > > >> > > > "transparency" and we will get much the same when the Iraq
> > scandal is
> > > >> > > > hidden from us next year. What we lack is honesty and
> > substantial
> > > >> > > > links between this and its use in day-to-day actions. Many
> > people
> > > >> > > > believe it is childish to look at work like this because the
> > real
> > > >> > > > world is so dirty. I suspect the real childishness lies in fear
> > we all
> > > >> > > > have of standing up to the bullying system, which we see as
> > holding
> > > >> > > > all the cards We know bosses and politicians are bad, but are
> > > >> > > > generally weak-kneed in the face of power and easy enough to buy
> > off
> > > >> > > > with a few trinkets and the threat of poverty if we stray into
> > telling
> > > >> > > > the truth. Much as I like Habermas, I'm sure these days that
> > work
> > > >> > > > like his is pussy-footing pisswitter lamenting our lack of
> > courage.
>
> > > >> > > > His academic critics often referred to him as 'the Professor' as
> > they
> > > >> > > > felt he was advocating a system that had to be followed to put
> > the
> > > >> > > > system right - perhaps they feared yet another righteous theory
> > as
> > > >> > > > potentially Nazi or Stalinist, even if Jurgen was a man of the
> > left.
> > > >> > > > Academe was wet-through with cultural identity garbage back then
> > and
> > > >> > > > still is. I just noticed he was weak on science, long on
> > unnecessary
> > > >> > > > explanation and broadly right on the destruction of what others
> > termed
> > > >> > > > organic links. I was looking for an explanation of why people
> > choose
> > > >> > > > to follow such stupid ways or get caught up in them. My own
> > view is
> > > >> > > > this happens and is a result of the way we promote lying in our
> > > >> > > > societies. The current situation in Iran would be a good
> > example. We
> > > >> > > > don't know whether the election was fixed to favour the
> > > >> > > > Maddinnerjacket, but there are ways to find out (properly
> > conducted
> > > >> > > > and sampled polling) and it ain't what Kameni is doing, even if
> > he
> > > >> > > > might be right about miserable Western interference. It's too
> > hard
> > > >> > > > anywhere for a populace to shift through the dross to get at
> > truth
> > > >> > > > because of liars and what is so easily hidden or flashed in
> > front of
> > > >> > > > us as the good. In our world, the child seeking to shout out
> > that the
> > > >> > > > Emperor is naked is already silenced.
>
> > > >> > > > On 18 June, 20:32, frantheman <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > >> > > > > Jürgen Habermas is 80 today. He is one of the most influential
> > > >> > > > > contemporary thinkers in the areas of philosophy, sociology
> > and
> > > >> > > > > cultural science:
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habermas,_Jürgen<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habermas,_J%C3%BCrgen>
>
> > > >> > > > > One of his most interesting works is "The Theory of
> > Communicative
> > > >> > > > > Action." I find his analysis of the development of
> > contemporary
> > > >> > > > > society interesting, particularly his analysis of the way
> > modern
> > > >> > > > > society can be seen as an unequal dialectic between private,
> > > >> > > > > subjective "lifeworlds" and an ever more powerful "system."
> > His
> > > >> > > > > thinking in this area is useful because it offers an
> > explanation for
> > > >> > > > > some trends we observe in contemporary society, for example,
> > our
> > > >> > > > > suspicions that we are being ever more disenfranchised,
> > although,
> > > >> > > > > formally, we live in societies in which participation,
> > representation
> > > >> > > > > and equality are established. Habermas sees the "system" as
> > taking
> > > >> > > > > overweening power and thus becoming a source of alienation in
> > the
> > > >> > > > > areas of the welfare state, corporate capitalism and the
> > culture of
> > > >> > > > > mass consumption. The mass media plays a major role in this
> > process.
> > > >> > > > > Political parties are also part of this "system."
>
> > > >> > > > > The following passage is lifted from Wikipedia (the quotations
> > are
> > > >> > > > > from TCA):
>
> > > >> > > > > "In the end, systemic mechanisms suppress forms of social
> > integration
> > > >> > > > > even in those areas where a consensus dependent co-ordination
> > of
> > > >> > > > > action cannot be replaced, that is, where the symbolic
> > reproduction of
> > > >> > > > > the lifeworld is at stake. In these areas, the mediatization
> > of the
> > > >> > > > > lifeworld assumes the form of colonisation".
> > > >> > > > > Habermas argues that Horkheimer and Adorno, like Weber before
> > them,
> > > >> > > > > confused system rationality with action rationality. This
> > prevented
> > > >> > > > > them dissecting the effects of the intrusion of steering media
> > into a
> > > >> > > > > differentiated lifeworld and the rationalisation of action
> > > >> > > > > orientations that follows. They could then only identify
> > spontaneous
> > > >> > > > > communicative actions within areas of apparently
> > 'non-rational'
> > > >> > > > > action, art and love on the one hand or the charisma of the
> > leader on
> > > >> > > > > the other, as having any value.
> > > >> > > > > According to Habermas, lifeworlds become colonised by steering
> > media
> > > >> > > > > when four things happen:
> > > >> > > > > 1. Traditional forms of life are dismantled.
> > > >> > > > > 2.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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