Ah Adam you are talking about the ramblings of Saul of tarsus. and you are right there is little common ground, Although I listen carefully to the teaching of Jesus I am not a worshiper of Saul of Tarsus or the man you call Paul. Allan
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Adam <[email protected]> wrote: > > Everything I have written in this article is based on scripture and > much of it on the writings of the apostle Paul. If you don’t recognise > Paul’s authority then we don’t really have much common ground for > discussion. > Adam. > > > On Sep 7, 7:14 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 5 Sep, 05:38, Adam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > There are some things that have worried and perplexed church-going > > > people for centuries. > > > For example. > > > Why does God remain silent? > > > > He doesn't. He speaks whenever you hear a voice. > > > > >Why are prayers ineffective? > > > > They aren't. But, sometimes, the answer is no. > > > > >Why does He > > > not interfere in men’s affairs? > > > > He does. constantly. Men's affairs are not men's affairs, they're > > God's affairs. > > > > >Why does He not prevent evil? > > > > Evil is perceived by men given limited knowledge. God, seeing all > > with omniscience, knows better than to think of anything as evil. > > > > >Why does > > > He not punish evil doers? > > > > Here or elsewhere? Have a quick peek into Hell and tell me if you > > still feel that way. > > > > >How does predestination work? > > > > Through the mechanism of space-time. > > > > >Are people > > > saved by faith or works? > > > > Neither. Salvation is not required. Understanding IS. > > > > > I am going to try to answer all these question in this article. > > > I will attempt to explain the reason for our existence as revealed by > > > the Bible. > > > I will also try to reveal the mind and purpose of God from the same > > > source and explain His two plans of salvation. > > > The Bible records that both Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit > > > and they eventually died. > > > The fruit contained drugs which had several effects on them both. > > > Their knowledge was increased because their eyes were opened and they > > > realised that they were naked. They became mortal and they became > > > selfish. So the fruit contained a mind-altering drug, a slow acting > > > poison that made them mortal and it changed their DNA structure to > > > produce the “selfish gene” (a description invented by atheist Richard > > > Dawkins). This selfish gene and the mortality would be passed on to > > > all their offspring right up to the present time. > > > > I would say that the fruit was the concept of choice. Once humans > > believed they had free will, they were doomed to act as if they were > > gods. Rather, they should accept that the only will IS God's and that > > we perform God's will. > > > > > These changes were not a punishment imposed upon the pair by God. They > > > were the natural consequences of eating a drugged substance. God did > > > punish them by imposing pain in childbirth upon Eve and hard > > > unfruitful labour upon Adam. The punishments were designed to show > > > them that their actions had caused pain to God and had made His work > > > unfruitful. > > > > Mortality was also given out as a punishment, BTW. > > > > > God’s purpose in creating mankind was to produce a race of people > > > willingly obedient to His word. He would then give eternal life to > > > this race of people and dwell with them on the earth. > > > > Well said. Too bad we have no faith in that anymore. > > > > > This purpose has been delayed because of the sin of the original pair > > > in the Garden of Eden. > > > > No, the delay is because of humanity's lack of faith IN God. For > > example, the Jews were commanded to build an ark and and ephod and a > > breastplate, etc. Since these were lost, no one has bothered to > > replace them. This is a GROSS oversight and is what is causing the > > delay of ther Messianic period. > > > > > Sin may be defined as “the failure to love God and neighbour”. > > > > Insofar as both of those are as a result of human vanity, yes. > > > > >The > > > proof that we love God is if we obey His commands and if we obey those > > > commands (which deal with the fair treatment of other people) then we > > > love our neighbour. The two go together. Ignorance of God is also sin > > > because we can’t love or obey what we don’t know. > > > > Ignorance is not, of necessity, sin. However, once one has been > > exposed to the concept, then (continued) ignorance becomes willing and > > a form of vanity where one places themselves before God. > > > > > The selfishness which is a part of every one of us is what theologians > > > have called “original sin”. Some seem to think that we all bear the > > > guilt of Adam’s sin. This is rubbish. We are not guilty of Adam’s sin > > > but we do indeed suffer the results of it. > > > > Adam's sin was to feel that he had a choice, i.e., that he could > > actually defy God and 'choose' to act in any particular way. I assure > > you that most humans are VERY guilty of that. > > > > >The inherent selfishness in > > > our bodies is “sinful human flesh” and it alienates us from God. We > > > are all, then, classified as “sinners” by God and are doomed to die. > > > In fact it is necessary for all of us to die to destroy the selfish > > > gene within us all. This selfish gene is what is known as ‘the devil’ > > > in scriptural terms. So Christ destroyed the devil within himself by > > > his death. > > > > If that were true, then there would be no temptation after Jesus' > > death. As that is NOT the case, Jesus' death did NOT perform that > > destruction. Besides, who would Michael battle in Armageddon if Satan > > were already destroyed? Small inconsistency there, Adam. > > > > > After the disobedience of the first human pair God could have > > > destroyed them and started again with a new pair. But he did not > > > destroy them. He allowed them to procreate and bring about the human > > > race as we see it today together with all its imperfections. > > > After the flood God gradually reduced the lifespan of all humans to a > > > maximum of 120 years but He apparently did not want everybody to die > > > solely from old age. So He introduced many and varied ways of bringing > > > about their death. Old age, epidemics and accidents were just a few > > > ways of accomplished this end. There are also earthquakes and volcanic > > > eruption and tidal waves and stillbirths, etc. This great variety of > > > ways to die ensures that no one knows just how or when he will lose > > > his life. In the light of this it is wrong to say that God has given > > > us life. It is more accurate to say that God has lent us life for a > > > relatively short time to see if we can overcome our inherent > > > selfishness and treat our neighbours fairly. > > > > A great insight there, Adam. We owe everything to God, our life, our > > sense of self and all our environment. > > > > >God has thrown us in at > > > the deep end to see which ones of us can rise above our nature. Even > > > the most primitive people know the difference between right and wrong > > > because we all have a conscience which will either justify or condemn > > > us on the day of judgement. > > > > Right and wrong, like good and evil, are in the eyes of the beholder. > > God doesn't see them. What He does see is selfishness, which is when > > Man separates himself from God by claiming "I". > > > > > In the Old Testament the word ‘heaven’ generally means ‘the sky’ but > > > in prophecy it often has a symbolic meaning. It means ‘the place where > > > the seat of government is located’ and the ‘earth’ means ‘the common > > > people’ or subjects of that government. Thus God, being the supreme > > > ruler of the universe, dwells in heaven somewhere, and on earth the > > > various kings and governments also inhabit their local ‘heaven’. > > > > God, being omnipresent, dwells everywhere. > > > > > In Paul’s day the seat of government was in Rome so when he wrote that > > > the gospel had been ‘preached to every creature which is under > > > heaven’, he did not mean that it had been preached in Japan or on the > > > American continent, he meant that it had only been preached throughout > > > the Roman Empire. > > > > Or, rather, that he was extending his version of the gospel to the > > gentiles. > > > > > Almost one third of the Bible is devoted to prophecy but I am not > > > going to delve into it in this article except to say that Christ has > > > promised to return to this earth and set up a kingdom here with its > > > headquarters in Jerusalem. To help with the government of this kingdom > > > certain men and women have been chosen to rule with Christ. These > > > people are called ‘saints’ and they were predestined to be called to > > > this honour since before the foundation of the earth. This is the > > > extent of predestination in the Bible. > > > > Nope. Predestination is extended throughout space-time. There is no > > place you can go where it isn't. > > > > >After the call was answered, > > > the saints had the free will to remain faithful to their calling or > > > not as they chose. There is no predestination for sinners. > > > > Predestination is for all. It is the Law and the law is for all. > > > > >We all have > > > freewill. > > > > No, you don't. you think you do, and that's something we've known, > > now, for around 100 years. But people cling to it because it makes > > them feel powerful (like mini gods). Rather, we are the agents OF God > > and we'd better start acting like it. > > > > >The saints were each given the Holy Spirit which taught them > > > all truth and given at least one supernatural gift. The Holy Spirit > > > was passed on to saints by the laying on of hands by one of the > > > apostles. The call began when Christ started teaching but then ceased > > > with the death of the last apostle because there was no one left to > > > pass on the Holy Spirit. The church quickly became corrupt as the > > > apostles predicted and there has been no true church since. The whole > > > world is now in the darkness of ignorance and will remain so until the > > > return of Christ. > > > > The Christian church became corrupt because it was led by Paul, > > who had never met Jesus. If the teachings of Jesus had been > > untampered by Paul, you would have found Christianity yo be another > > sect of Judaism, much like the Conservative/Masorti sect is now. > > > > > > > > > The saints who have remained faithful unto death will be resurrected > > > immortal at the return of Christ and be rewarded with positions of > > > authority in the kingdom according to their works. Those saints who > > > have fallen away from the faith have had their names removed from the > > > book of life, the Holy Spirit has been taken away from them and they > > > will not be raised at the return of Christ. > > > It is predicted that the prophet Elijah > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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