“…Was that a typo? Wouldn't 'due to tax BURDENS' make more sense?...” – DJ
Nope…the top tax rate has dropped during my adult life time here in the US by over 60%. The complete lack of funding for things like books, non-leaking buildings, paint, teachers, and now federally mandated testing is not due to lack of interest. Well, perhaps for some it is. However, when the tax rate drops by such a large factor, there is no revenue to spend…analogies abound. Pick your own. “…We've been throwing money at it for years, increasing year after year after year and we still get the same poor results. What's the definition of insanity again?...” – DJ Insanity is reducing revenue to the level where we cannot fund the education of our youth. The blind and radically right lead tax revolt had condemned our country to generations of dumb and dumber along with a failed infrastructure. “…I'm not sure where you get the idea that most people want universal health care. This is incorrect….” – DJ Yes, it is incorrect, according to FAUX ‘News’. However, IF one looks beyond ideological corporate based TV propaganda, one can find the truth. http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/04/06/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4923731.shtml http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/health/policy/21poll.html http://health.usnews.com/articles/health/healthday/2009/02/11/poll-shows-strong-support-for-obama-health-care.html “…To you, this means universal. To many of the rest of us that notice the way business works and people react it means no such thing. Access and quality would inevitably go down for most middle class (those that deem it important to carry insurance without government mandate) people…” – DJ To me…along with the rest of the industrialized population of the world. Don’t forget those who are not blinded by ideology but have been maintaining very successful universal health care worldwide for a long time now. Anyone can play the right/left misdirection here in the states, mostly big pharma and the insurance companies, along with their stock holders. Only some right wing wack jobs see this through ideological eyes rather than what currently exists in dozens of countries today world wide. “… The AP and the NYT's may downplay it but there is a middle class revolt against big government and taxes going on in this country. Continuing to make fun of these people isn't going to help the tax lovers. …” – DJ Sorry Don, time to put away the old way of thinking. We are in the middle of a depression, capitalism has shown again that it is a failed system, the ‘middle class’ is revolted by how the health care system here has degenerated to something that is run by insurance companies rather than health professionals. Continuing to downplay reality and play the divisive card will only lead to more and more civil unrest. We the people have had enough. This ‘we’ includes the vast majority of doctors and nurses. I do not make fun of tea baggers because their frustration is real, only the understanding of the cause is missing. More of us are now awake to the situation and things will change. “…Some of us notice when the white house says how much something will cost and then the Congressional Budget Office comes back and says something substantially different.” – DJ Yes, some have their eye on the bottom line…without full information. Others look at their and their neighbor’s experiences and rejections by insurance companies daily. These others look at the continued increase in suffering and bankruptcies that goes up each day. These others (yes, the majority) have actually begun to look beyond the corporate run TV propaganda and see what is happening all over the globe and they like what they see. The time for provincial protectionism is long over. We have suffered enough. “… Let's look at other countries the size of the USA that have tried socialism. Size matters. People speak of true democracy but to me that would mean allowing us citizens to chose on our own where our money goes rather then hiring shysters to decide for us. In this day and age of high tech why can't we come up with a way to bypass congress and get our monies to the right people/ foundations/ charities/ organizations /institutions of our choice?...” - DJ We have and find that socialized health care rather than health care by and for the corporations works..and is better for the common good…a guarantee of our constitution. Do not conflate socialism and democracy …that old dog won’t hunt any more. Do not raise the concern about choice…this too is not based in reality in the rest of the industrialized West. It is only here in the US where such large parts of the population have to chose between drugs and food, between health care and rent, between insurance and….well, just being able to live. Even those in the middle class now see that they can chose between insurance packages that have recently doubled in cost and nothing. . of the choice between going to an MD that is approved by their insurance company and not being able to afford their old family favorite doctor…of having managed health care or of not being able to decide on their own how they will have their health needs met. The choice red herring is just that. And, when you mention ‘shysters’, take a big long look at Wall Street, William Maguire (http:// en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_W._McGuire )....and the rest. They do exist. When the term is used against lawyers, I just pray that you never have to fight to be accepted for healthcare by yourself…even with lawyers today, more and more people just will not receive treatment. This is well known and verifiable. On Sep 26, 6:48 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > Term limits. Highly recommended. I have seen how low the US is on > the health care list. I wonder what World Body came up with this > 'list' and what their goals are? Maybe to weaken the USA in any > fashion they can? I'm just sayin'. > > Regardless, since we can no longer afford to provide a good education > due to tax reduction, we can’t even help here by teaching the masses > to at least evaluate situations. . . let alone look for objectivity. -orn > > Was that a typo? Wouldn't 'due to tax BURDENS' make more sense? I > mean, the public school system sucks eggs for the most part orn. If I > didn't have to pay so much in taxes or if I got a sweet 15 grand tax > credit/voucher to send my son to the private school of my choice I > would do it in a heart beat. The way many of the public schools are > run it seems more like a prison or at least holding cell then an > institution of higher learning. We've been throwing money at it for > years, increasing year after year after year and we still get the same > poor results. What's the definition of insanity again? > > I'm not sure where you get the idea that most people want universal > health care. This is incorrect. What people want is more affordable > health care while maintaining a high standard of quality. To you, > this means universal. To many of the rest of us that notice the way > business works and people react it means no such thing. Access and > quality would inevitably go down for most middle class(those that deem > it important to carry insurance without government mandate) people. > The very same people that make up the majority of voters and pay the > most taxes will see their health care expenses rise most likely. The > AP and the NYT's may downplay it but there is a middle class revolt > against big government and taxes going on in this country. Continuing > to make fun of these people isn't going to help the tax lovers. Some > of us notice when the white house says how much something will cost > and then the Congressional Budget Office comes back and says something > substantially different. > > You write of learning from other countries. This is an excellent > point. Let's look at other countries the size of the USA that have > tried socialism. Size matters. People speak of true democracy but to > me that would mean allowing us citizens to chose on our own where our > money goes rather then hiring shysters to decide for us. In this day > and age of high tech why can't we come up with a way to bypass > congress and get our monies to the right > people/foundations/charities/organizations/institutions of our choice? > THAT would be true democracy. I could send every dime of my alloted > tax money straght to the Heritage Foundation to help them lobby for > even lower taxes. I'm a freakin' genius. ////<-----sarc tag. > > dj > > On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 6:34 AM, ornamentalmind > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > …truth is that today, we in the ‘free’ country of the United States of > > America can easily dial up any news opinion we want. Fox is not news, > > it is entertainment for those hungry for red meat. The same is true > > for some of the leftie programs. The problem is that while it feels > > good to watch opinions that are similar to ones own, it does NOTHING > > for humanity nor our survival. In fact, I would posit that loads of > > misinformation is regressive and adds to this culture’s decline. > > > No longer are there only 3 TV programs…there are hundreds! And, when > > it comes to a diversity of opinions, the net takes the cake. News > > print is almost a monolith today. I think I heard that there are only > > 5 companies now that own the major news outlets…. > > > Regardless, since we can no longer afford to provide a good education > > due to tax reduction, we can’t even help here by teaching the masses > > to at least evaluate situations. . . let alone look for objectivity. > > Neil, my heart cries too! Technology, in the sense of media machines, > > merely adds to the problem. I have no idea about other aspects of it. > > I fear we are entering another dark age. USA passed its zenith decades > > ago and now will crash and burn quite quickly when China and/or Japan > > stop lending monies. 1% of our population have more wealth, in the > > physical sense than 98% combined. Surfdom is beginning to look like a > > pleasant option! Yet, politicians and the corporate dogs (lobbyists) > > continue to fan the flames of another civil war all too similar to the > > last one, which, as I understand was in fact based on economic issues > > too. Is there any possibility that the two poles, right/left could > > stop fighting long enough to turn attention to the policy makers and > > legal system? I’m sure this an option that few would expect. I am way > > past the old saying of ‘throw the bums out’. (all of ‘em) We are no > > longer represented. The majority of us want universal health care…the > > majority of health care practitioners want single payer…we are 37th in > > the field world wide and have so many other countries to learn from… > > does arrogance allow us to do so? Either way, I think I’ll go into the > > wheelbarrow business. It was good enough in Germany at the end of WWII > > to cart inflated monies around, it will be just as good here…and will > > be even better when all plastic is stopped. > > > Here endith the rant..... > > > On Sep 26, 2:37 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Good points here orn. I'll accept that explanation and agree it could > >> be the reason some choose to avoid the communist label while clearly > >> supporting the most well known tenets. > > >> The Daily Show clip, while amusing, isn't exactly representative of > >> the truth. Compare your average 'liberal protester' with with your > >> average conservative Tea Party goer. Say, those kooks at the G-20 > >> summit in Pittsburgh with the recent Million Man(or 60k;depends on > >> where you get your info.) march in DC. How many were arrested in DC? > >> How many in Pittsburgh? What Jon Stewart didn't play was O'Reilly > >> clearly calling the folks that committed crimes and got themselves > >> arrested kooks. I'm sure when some conservative bites of a liberal's > >> finger he'll call him a kook as well. > > >> dj > > >> On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 3:51 AM, ornamentalmind > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > From a different thread, we find the following: > > >> > "...In a completely unrelated matter; why do so many 'activists' hide > >> > (or > >> > at least obscure) their true ideologies? People that live and breath > >> > a Marxist doctrine will look you straight in the eye and tell you > >> > they > >> > aren't a communist. Do you think they're ignorant, stupid or are > >> > they > >> > trying to put one over on us? Not that there is anything wrong with > >> > being a communist... I'm just curious what some of you think of the > >> > often un-clever attempts of some journalists to muddy their political > >> > leanings. Do they think we're all stupid or something?" – DJ > > >> > Personally, I find right wing activists to be the worst and more > >> > deceptive here…surprised? I doubt it! :-) > > >> > I for one, while in no way a monolith and being quite conservative on > >> > many topics, often am afraid to express my proud liberal views if I am > >> > required to stuff them into a nebulous and never fully defined term > >> > such as Marxist, communist, socialist etc. I have found that everyone > >> > thinks they know the meaning of these terms, me included, and almost > >> > in every case, this is far from the truth. Or at the very least, there > >> > is no agreement on the meaning of terms. So, why should I set myself > >> > up as someone else’s straw man? > > >> > So, in the spirit of equality, I present the following! > > >> > Fox News: The New Liberals > > >> > Fox News turns into the liberal media by defending protesters, > >> > criticizing the president and shoving its values down America's > >> > throat. > > >> >http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-august-19-2009/fox-news--the-ne...Hide > >> > quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
