I would add the thought that tribal chiefs, politicians and the elite, etc. of these various nations have generally been quite adept/clever at seizing the opportunities the West provided/imposed while still managing to keep down their own populations in the political, economic and social arenas.We introduced a modern world to an ancient human nature.
On Oct 8, 6:31 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I think we probably need to go further than Vam - though he is clearly > right on the West. The ignorance amongst our own people of what we > have actually done and keep doing is very scary. Ho Chi Minh is > reputed to have thought that the US (as a democracy) would actually > help his country escape imperialism (mostly French). US intervention > in 'Suez' was reputed at the time to be about curbing the idiot Anglo- > French attempt to return to power in the Middle East. I suspect this > was more to do with ensuring that form of Europe did not arise again > as a competitor to the US. Britain has been clinging to US coat-tails > ever since, frankly (and perhaps blessedly) looking more and more > pathetic. What's needed is some kind of 'people's solution', but they > are keeping us well away from that. > I've mentioned before that India is building a major highway in > Afghanistan to ports in Iran - something that would cut Pakistan off > from whatever trade it's assumed would be generated. Oil has long > been the major resource the West has been stealing - and probably > preventing others getting use of it. BP at one time was taking more > from Iran than the Iranians were allowed to take in revenues for > themselves. - both British and Russian troops occupied Iran. Much as > the British ripped India off, it was never the British who were > benefiting, just a small elite. Generally, the Western model was one > in which its own populations were taxed in order that wars could be > fought on behalf of a few. It is still not taught to us like it was. > Now we imagine we have democracy and are somehow engaged in some new > kind of missionary work - in fact it's business as usual - but it may > well be that other emerging powers have rumbled 'us' - even the Saudis > - and that the resources to dominate through 'money' are no longer > 'ours'. This is potentially (and probably actually) very dangerous. > In the West we can think we are the 'good guys' for many disparate > 'reasons' - from neo-con imperialism to bleeding-heart liberalism. > The truth is that we have failed our own populations and maintain > 'superiority' through equally stupid ideologies. There are even some > who would regard Vam as some kind of ingrained racist for daring to > say what he has - these people generally pretend some form of > understanding of the other whilst believing their own position is > objective, fair and properly considers others, something only their > education can give. Vam, of course, can become 'one of them' - as > long as he adopts their ways. This is as dismal as regarding him as a > terrorist (and plenty would). If my friend asks 'on what evidence', I > can only say they never need any. > More honesty would help - but what hope when we are still able to have > political leaders urging us to be proud to be British (etc) in public > but always ensure we can't actually talk to each other about our real > experiences and learn about each other in an honest manner. Sometimes > Vam, watching science fiction in which the alien mothership is > terrorising poor, badly armed white people who eventually triumph > against overwhelming power, I suspect I'm watching recent history > against Western (or Soviet) air power against the so-called terrorists > of Vietnam, South America, Chechnia, Indonesia and so on. The grim > question is whether 'we' intend to withdraw or make some last bid to > use current superiority to lay waste to competition. I believe we are > still so uneducated (or over-educated) that we 'liberal democrats' are > not the best form of defence for the rest of the world to rely on. > > On 8 Oct, 21:45, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The question is easily answered. The US removes its military > > occupation from Iraq and Afghanistan. The US stops shoveling money at > > both countries. Obama needs to find advisors who are not influenced by > > vested interests in the military-industrial-complex.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
