I too rarely venture forth these days Orn, and I didn't see the Japanese drummers and walked the dog so Pete and Sue could enjoy themselves. It was a nice night and I sat outside a few bars on Canal Street and various people stopped by to talk to the hound. The 'scene' generally is as I describe it, though the pubs are shutting. I sort of want to regret that, but don't. Chris has forgotten there is no bread in a UK shit butty - with our quality standards it just coats the filling, unless, of course, it's a double-decker. Our licensing laws changed some years ago to encourage new bars and a bistro-cafe culture - we've ended-up with dire town centres full of gin palaces, fights and street violence. Any fool could have predicted this and many did. The beer is mostly swill and even counterfeit, with off-licenced super-strength lager and cider for the underclass - our conservatives are vowing to double its price to cut consumption and this will only encourage the smugglers. I'd almost go for prohibition - would if it would solve the problems.
A large number of our people have more or less no aspiration and (on a more serious tour) I could show you kids at 11 already failed by school (and parents etc.) and now threatened with being kept there until 18. Our politicians talk up education solutions that can't work and some 20 years ago swamped higher education with people who can't benefit much from it. This was to reduce dole queues until the job market came back, which it never has. One in four of our under 25's in probably really unemployed. Jobs that involve real training and skill learning are rare - I played a minor role in trying to move us to the German system years ago and got a tv company to take parents to German families with kids of similar age. They were outraged and would have been more so had I been able to get them to Poland and Czechoslovakia which were still Warsaw Pact at the time and better than us in a number of respects. The answer for academically unable kids is not more school. I favour dropping school leaving age to 14 with a great deal of intensive literacy-numeracy training for the 25% who don't reach even functional levels and then a seven-year period of a new form of national-international service of which further schooling and university may be part and which would involve our armed services in a training role for some. I'd want to see work-learning projects as a major part of this and for all kids to spend some time away from home as boarders. I'd scrap all professions in favour of qualification systems through university or work-based assessed qualification and look to prevent severe over-qualification by job evaluation. I'd encourage management development through work as an adult in the new national-international service, policing and social work, including their management cadres. Systems such as that in which only lawyers can become judges and so on would be stopped and in general I'd want to lower any class barriers to entry to any work. We might also have to share any scut-work with those only capable of that on some kind of rota. Such would be my outline notion of life-long learning. We might even have to find a credit system that allowed people to stay out of it - perhaps toilet cleaning and stuff others don't want to do. I can sense Gabby searching for a pair of jackboots to throw in my direction - but I really think this could be managed fairly. On 9 Oct, 22:38, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > “…There should be more to life.” – Neil > > Perhaps our sociological wanderings and musings diverged long ago > archy. While I used to toss ‘em down until I could no more, even > tended bar for quite a while... long ago I ceased all bar activity and > visitations. Further, I even ceased the intake of alcohol. I do seem > to remember being deeply involved with the humanity de jour and > associated tales. But then again, this was decades ago. > > While my brushings with prostitutes mostly has involved listening to a > pitch in a Las Vegas parking lot, (I didn’t give money) I’ve had > countless nonprofessional relations, mostly in my formative years. > Today, interaction mostly is online or at the checkout line. Oh, of > course there is the omnipresent interaction mentioned in a different > thread. > > And, my only teaching was mostly relegated to more tangible things > like flute, tai chi, computers with forays into more etheric areas > such as math, peer counseling and esoterica. > > So, upper or lower class makes little difference. I will be drinking > water. This is not based on Puritanism but more on practicality, > evaluation and my personal physician’s advice. I find that the state > of living has reached a true quality of equilibrium seldom even spied > while on the prowl. I can’t help but think, as a sort of self > contained scientist that spending hours a day using intentional > breathing, visualization, mantra, movement and self observation has > had an influence too. Not being evangelical here, just reporting. > > And even though I am a bit hermetically sealed while reading the > Emerald Tablet, at once I am of the world in total interaction. What > ‘carping’ that does arise is mostly seen for what it is, chitta. > > On Oct 9, 8:00 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > There IS more to life, but only if we choose to reach out and touch it, > > Neil. Even a damn dirty atheist like myself recognizes that there is still > > wonder and mystery, love, joy, hope, and even peace, although perhaps more > > of the resigned contentment sort. Peel away the layers of that shit sandwich > > and you may find it doesn't go all the way to the core. > > > On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 10:51 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Now, now Orn - we can't have you being more cynical than me! The > > > essence for me is a world of people not scratting about for > > > 'survival' (a strange term given the situation historically leads to > > > war) and actually able to ponder new ways other than as relief from > > > survival. The key element is that we won't accept the dominant model > > > doesn't work, but can't really identify what it is and how it is > > > 'working'. This is a question of consciousness to me - what we can > > > know of ourselves as actors in evolution and thus change and even > > > relish. > > > > I can teach able students as well without personal contact as with. > > > Their ability to get on through electronic means is truly amazing. > > > Such students are about 20% of the literate-numerate population. We > > > really should have this end of education packaged up by now and free > > > (with reservations on bomb-building etc.). This should stand > > > alongside international working projects to raise production (of > > > homes, electronic communication, sustainable food production, fair > > > legal systems ..) and to bring new technologies in energy, planet > > > protection (not least from ourselves) and forms of human satisfaction. > > > > On a trip to the pub I could have sex in dark bushes with a drug- > > > hungry prostitute (actually I couldn't - though I have been as far as > > > giving a young girl £20 and putting her on the bus home) - drink vast > > > amounts of lager (tax, more tax, payments to Arab multinational funds > > > that own the place and a few quid over for the barmaid) with a mate > > > equally wondering why, shovel a curry down in an empty restaurant > > > (times are hard) and keep it all in until after a taxi ride home. The > > > pubs here safe to go in are empty (recession bites) - others full of > > > our young drinking themselves fit for sex most of them don't get and > > > waiting in line for a trip to A & E to 'subsidise' our NHS. This, > > > perhaps, has been the 'metaphysics' I have witnessed around the world, > > > though I'm generally more content on my mate Moosa's boat in a squall > > > demanding some expertise with the wind. > > > We could go 'upper-class' if you like Orn. Sherry reception at the > > > Bridgewater Hall (evaded by a cold one or warm one in the Briton's > > > Protection - still a decent pub), an amazing Japanese drumming band > > > (whipping up my mate's Guide Dog to a confused frenzy!), an excellent > > > Greek meal in a place run by my ex-students with a gratis bottle or > > > two in gratitude (with a sermon from the Maitre about a trip to his > > > home town for some 'real women' after he spots our metaphysical > > > frowns), a quick trip to 'water' the over-fed dog, a brushing-off off > > > of homosexual prostitutes (the restaurant is in the gay village) and > > > an Asian black cab taking us not quite to Pete's house for an Irish > > > coffee while we inspect his fish-pond (not telling him the heron has > > > had it away with his carp). The Casino would still be open for > > > sociological observations of Chinese entertainment, though they won't > > > let the dog in for fear his expertise in blackjack would upset the mug- > > > punters, and in any case he might attack the Chinese fearing them to > > > be mad Japanese earpounders! At any point, we should be prepared to > > > save the modern-day equivalent of a damsel in distress, an office girl > > > with too many 'Vimto shandies' (brandy and port) consumed as her 'life > > > moment' paid for by a week at work. > > > > There should be more to life. > > > > On 9 Oct, 14:36, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > This all is one reason I have been ‘into’ metaphysics for quite a > > > > while now Neil. Like you, I had looked around and found most > > > > institutions and methods to be at the least disappointing along with > > > > one’s own associated sense of disillusionment. Having already explored > > > > religion and finding most institutions thereof to be hollow or vapid > > > > at best, turning to a larger area, that of metaphysics was but one > > > > more attempt at feeling whole. It includes the healthy skepticism you > > > > embody along with the physics of the thing. I already had looked into > > > > physics in general and saw its value and limitations…the same for > > > > mathematics and rhetoric. I ‘did’ the arts for a long time and > > > > eventually found even them lacking although I still do appreciate much > > > > in this area. And when it comes to politics, the wide divide between > > > > ideals and current practices makes such pursuits anathema. > > > > > Overall, metaphysics can offer the value of skepticism in the sense of > > > > looking for the ‘gold’ and not getting bogged down in your now > > > > infamous ‘dross’. Having ‘done’ skepticism in the now traditional > > > > arena of reduction ad absurdum and being left ‘empty’ along with > > > > intuitively sensing the associated nihilism and its full vacuousness, > > > > I continued to explore. > > > > > Within many schools one’s activity is pointed towards ‘doing’ in the > > > > sense of not for one’s self alone but for all of humanity. This > > > > orientation has a function and a result. Also, there comes a point > > > > where one doesn’t mess so much with ‘the painting’ having recognized > > > > the temporary and actual nature of appearances. So, in the Hinayana > > > > sense, one reaches a personal state while in a Mahayana sense, one is > > > > by clarifying one’s self doing it for us all. Here it all is Vajrayana > > > > too. > > > > > Of course, from the Sufi perspective, self observation is a paramount > > > > step. Only when one knows the parameters of the observing locus can > > > > one feel any comfort and confidence it that which is observed. Also, > > > > there are other methods including the actual reverse, that of > > > > observing the apparent external and ignoring the internal. > > > > > Now, outside of this, regardless of apparently external motivators let > > > > alone one’s own idealistic drive, there is no blame for living in the > > > > world, protestations for ‘right livelihood’ aside. What has been found > > > > before to be distractions now becomes mirrors to the source of all. > > > > Even using an outmoded form of inquiry, an analysis of the importance > > > > of adapting AND believing the resultant behavior/thinking is reality > > > > itself finds its death when eternity and the finality of this life is > > > > included. Many consider death at the core of philosophy, I agree. And, > > > > there is much ‘dross’ in the literature and even more to the point of > > > > impossibility when it comes to current trends. > > > > > Pat has his focus, Vam his…even lee et al share their paths openly. > > > > This never ending process of disclosure, followed by reintegration > > > > followed by diffusion again is but a part of the cyclical process. > > > > > Enough of this waxing poetic/esoteric/stream of consciousness! It is > > > > all chitta or mindstuff anyway! > > > > > Perhaps you will return to the pub, perhaps not. Perhaps a different > > > > culture and/or profession, perhaps not. The adventure goes on. Of > > > > course, like the Tarot, one starts out as the Fool and after the > > > > entire deck is traversed, one returns as a Fool too, however this time > > > > with the knowledge of the deck. There are few true mystery schools > > > > today and many that do exist are rejected for one reason or another, > > > > often replaced with either the meme of the day and/or one’s own > > > > philosopher charlatan theory. > > > > > In health, be well! > > > > > On Oct 9, 5:20 am, > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
