Well put, Francis. As usual. You can put me in the category of encouraging immigration. But I also support improved enforcement of our laws and a harsher penalty to those that break them. It sounds very much like traveling from country to country in Europe is much like traveling from state to state here in the States. Some states, like California and Florida, have checkpoints to make sure you aren't bringing fruit flies in. No, that's not a gay bashing joke. If I had said San Francisco had checkpoints to keep the fruits IN that might have been considered gay bashing. So I'm glad I didn't say that.
I have a question. Is English as a spoken language tolerated more in France and Spain then it was 25 years ago? I know pretty much everyone knows English over there but how's the reaction to your average American tourist that may know some Spanish or French or German from high school but doesn't know all three. By the way, Fran, it is uniquely American to feel(to know, in fact) that being competent in one language is plenty. Just so long as that language is English; the only valid reference point in the world. >insert pig grunting noises here< -Don On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, fran the man <[email protected]> wrote: > Open borders in Europe are based in the Schengen agreement of 1985, > which established the so-called "Schengen Area." > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area > In addition, the single market for goods and services within the EU > and, in the past ten years or so, the introduction and spread of the > euro as a common currency (currently in 16 countries) have contributed > to the growing insignificance of borders for Europeans. As someone, > like Allan, who lives in continental Europe, and who can (just!) > remember some of what it was like beforehand, I continue to find it > wonderfully convenient and - despite the large commercial component > involved - something inspiring. It is a sign that we Europeans have > managed to really learn some lessons from the horrors of the > nationalistic and ideological wars of the 20th. Century which caused > so many millions of deaths and immeasurable suffering. > > This said, it's not completely open borders. Anyone entering the > Schengen area (especially non-EU, non-Schengen citizens) are pretty > thoroughly scrutinised before they are allowed in. And Europe, in its > own way, also has major problems with illegal immigrants, just as the > US does. Indeed, dozens die weekly through drowning while attempting > to cross the Mediterranean or come up the Moroccan coast in attempts > to leave Africa for Europe. One source I have found gives a figure of > half a million illegal immigrants into the EU annually. > http://www.euractiv.com/en/justice/illegal-immigration-asylum-border-control/article-117508 > But, just as in the US, illegals, once they have arrived, are quickly > absorbed into society, mostly right at the bottom of the social heap, > living in insecurity, frequently exploited, often involved in - more > or less - criminal milieus. > > I incline to the viewpoint that, despite the platitudes generally > mouthed by politicians, illegal immigration is factually tolerated and > even encouraged because these people fill all kinds of niches in our > societies which our societies need, from cheap, exploitable, uninsured > labour to people willing to (or forced by circumstances) to provide > services which are legally restricted or prohibited (prostitution, > drug-dealing, etc.) for which there is an eternal and ineluctable > demand. > > Generally, I am slightly irritated by some posts on this thread (and > beyond) which suggest that US Americans regard their country as > something exceptional, or as the only valid reference-point in the > world. A growth in awareness among its citizens and in its self- > perceived view that the USA is one of many countries and areas in the > world, many of which both share and practically implement the same > basic ideals would be positive, both for the US and the world in > general. You may (still) be the biggest kid on the block, but there > are lots of others here too, and, guess what, some of those other kids > feel that they can actually do a lot of things just as well, or even > better, than you! > > Francis > > On 30 Nov., 08:32, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: >> Sorry I have no problem going from my home to Germany, Luxenbourg, Belgium, >> France , not even a check point, when I lived in the US,, I always had to >> go through a check point whether going to or from Canada or Mexico.. the >> borders have never really been open. >> here there is just a sign saying you are in a different country. >> Allan >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 5:55 PM, kenandkids <[email protected]> wrote: >> > we are the only nation on earth expected to have these "open" borders. >> > all other nations monitor and control entrance. mexico is one of the >> > most militant about immigrants and travel. >> >> > On Nov 29, 8:15 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > You don't close borders, you just have some means of controlling them, >> > > not allowing a free for all unchecked invasion of foreigners. In the >> > > past people came to Ellis Island and other ports and were processed. >> > > Now they just climb the fence or float over to the beach and hang out >> > > in your back yard. I have friends who have property on the border, >> > > who have come home for find a dozen people sitting around the back >> > > yard drinking their water and eating vegetables from their garden. Is >> > > that what America is all about? Not in my America, maybe yours. You >> > > can't just walk across the border into Canada or Mexico, its illegal >> > > and if you get caught its problema grande. Cmon man? >> >> > > On Nov 29, 2:40 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > cmon man..thats wat America is about for people of the developing >> > > > countries.. a place for oppurtunities.. its liberal nature is wat >> > > > makes america , america...for the other countries..you cant just close >> > > > borders >> >> > > > On Nov 28, 5:28 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > Because we have let everyone in without hardly a notice, the enemies >> > > > > of the state own land here, our borders are not protected and our >> > > > > shores are vulnerable to invasion while we arrogantly expend our >> > > > > strength in foreign lands, but not for the sake of them but only and >> > > > > obviously for the sake of corporate strategic gain which has >> > corrupted >> > > > > our government policies, our politicians and our own complacent >> > > > > minds. Wake up and smell the coffee they used to say but now it's >> > > > > more like wake up and smell the stench of deadness. >> >> > > > > On Nov 27, 4:35 pm, dj Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > Slip- If I put the impression of liberal immigration did not mean >> > > > > > too....does not other countries have this problem ? Why is it put >> > under >> > > > > > liberal.. >> >> > > > > > On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > > > > > > What you have to understand, Doris, is that the good ol USA is >> > one of >> > > > > > > those countries that is steeped in the dilemma of Liberal >> > Immigration >> > > > > > > Laws and Blind Political Correctness. It's a Toxic Formula that >> > has >> > > > > > > been and will continue to wreak havoc on our country. >> >> > > > > > > On Nov 25, 1:56 am, dj Briscoe <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > > > > > > > I just read this --I was right a few years ago what has came >> > through the >> > > > > > > US >> > > > > > > > or any nation >> > > > > > > > I think of the procedures that you go through when you enter a >> > > > > > > nation..and >> > > > > > > > the procedures you go through to become a citizen..alot of it >> > is on >> > > > > > > > legalmalities..on paper and does not filter who is who..If you >> > think >> > > > > > > about >> > > > > > > > the reality of when some leave their countries for many reason >> > > > > > > > and by those reason ..of marriage -freedom-ect. that some are >> > devoted to >> > > > > > > > their religion-their -causes--If it is a ocean away...This is >> > where I >> > > > > > > > feel like again it is on the people of those nation's of >> > awareness and >> > > > > > > > discernment--- >> >> > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 11:00 PM, dj Briscoe >> > > > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > > Ft.Hood incident >> >> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 10:55 PM, dj < >> > [email protected]> >> > > > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > >> Hansan was under investigation before he even bought a gun? >> >> > > > > > > > >> -- >> >> > > > > > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> > Google >> > > > > > > Groups >> > > > > > > > >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> > > > > > > > >> To post to this group, send email to >> > [email protected]. >> > > > > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > > > > > > >> [email protected]<minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > > > > > > > >> .com> >> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> > > > > > > <minds-eye%[email protected]<minds-eye%252bunsubscr...@googleg >> > > > > > > roups.com> >> > <minds-eye%252bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> >> > > > > > > > >> . >> > > > > > > > >> For more options, visit this group at >> > > > > > > > >>http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. >> >> > > > > > > -- >> >> > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >> > Google Groups >> > > > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. >> > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > > > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > > > > > > .com> >> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> > > > > > > . >> > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at >> > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.-Hidequotedtext - >> >> > > > > - Show quoted text - >> >> > -- >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > ""Minds Eye"" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [email protected]<minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups >> > .com> >> > . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. >> >> -- >> ( >> ) >> I_D Allan > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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