The book by Peter and Hull came out in the 60s as I remember. Dilbert has suggested this was a high point before the current madness of bringing managers in with no clue about any level in the organisation. More serious work by Chris Argyris was popular for a while. Any study of military campaigns ... or major police enquiries ... etc. My view is rather more biological. It started when doing teaching for the Industrial Society - we used to ask classes to name 'great leaders'. This was supposedly to reveal trait theories of leadership were useless and open the way to discuss Action Centred Leadership. What always struck me was that the names were all generally madmen Like Mao, Hitler, Stalin or religious figures largely mythical and the absence of any ordinary folk I would think of like my old charge office sergeant. I started to look at leadership in animal groups. It generally comes with 'castration-like' syndromes and severe lack of empowerment.
On 15 Dec, 20:26, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > “… My own view is that incompetence is the huge problem and I believe > this is mostly what we are teaching and encouraging…” – archy > > …a notion at least 2 score year old… > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle > > On Dec 15, 12:09 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I don't go directly for the 'Ivory Tower' argument Molly, though I > > have a lot of direct feeling for what you say and would not be in > > dispute with it. Foucault once addressed this via the notion of the > > universal and concrete intellectual, but frankly that was flim-flam. > > It is all too easy to end up in a kind of impotent rage. My own view > > is that incompetence is the huge problem and I believe this is mostly > > what we are teaching and encouraging. Academe is now something of a > > dead-weight. What I see is the double-bind of agreeing what you say > > and knowing the words are part of the problem. Indeed, we could > > dismiss them as just another failed set of managerial words, but this > > is to miss the potential. > > > On 15 Dec, 18:00, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I think we are only politically impotent when we do not involve > > > ourselves in politics in a way direct enough to allow our influence on > > > the political matters that effect our lives. We are all presented > > > with myriad opportunities to become directly involved with grass roots > > > politics, and from there, our sphere of influence expands in direct > > > relationship to our unifiying efforts. Staying in our ivory towers > > > complaining about what we think is wrong in the world leads to > > > impotence. Participation leads to empowerment. A reality check of > > > our expectations may be in order. > > > > On Dec 14, 5:43 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think those of us that care will try Neil, and the othyers will just > > > > carry on as normal. How do you make somebody care? I guess you > > > > can't. > > > > > On 11 Dec, 22:57, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > That seems to be the case Lee. I don't know how we beat it, just that > > > > > we should try. Yet trying hurts because they are so smarmy. > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 14:29, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Good question man. > > > > > > > Voter apathy? Personaly I feel this impotentance myself. I can feel > > > > > > the rage building every time I see one of the smarmy little sods on > > > > > > TV, yep I mean politicians. > > > > > > > What angers me the most is the aviodance of answering the question > > > > > > put > > > > > > to you. Instead they take the question as an oppertunity to slag > > > > > > off > > > > > > the opposition(okay I can expect a certian amount of this with a > > > > > > general election due) or answer a question they really wish to > > > > > > answer, > > > > > > but not the one asked. > > > > > > > Why do I feel impotent? Because I know no matter which way I vote, > > > > > > due to the ammount of people that just wont bother, and the ammount > > > > > > of > > > > > > people that will vote not according to their conciounse, but in line > > > > > > with what the media portrays, well I fear we'll have no more than a > > > > > > repeat of what has been going on for as long as I can remember. > > > > > > > People get fed up with fed up with the sleaze of present goverment > > > > > > as > > > > > > portayed in the media, and just vote the opposition in, no matter > > > > > > who > > > > > > that opposition is. Then perhaps 8, or 10, or 12 years later people > > > > > > get pissed off with the sleaze of goverement and vote the opposition > > > > > > in. Round and round we go again and again. > > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 13:48, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Most people I've known anywhere in the world have had little time > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > politics. The basic reason given is that politicians feather > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > own nests. Fear and ingroup hatreds often lead to tribal or > > > > > > > sectarian > > > > > > > voting. Perhaps, underneath this, is that many just want to get > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > with their own lives - something most people see as harmless. > > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > people also feel their efforts would be useless a kind of > > > > > > > impotence > > > > > > > seems involved. I have never found it possible to vote for > > > > > > > changes I > > > > > > > really want, though I usually turn out at the ballot. Whips were > > > > > > > originally slaves used to whip in recalcitrant citizens - a double > > > > > > > shame of not carrying out civic duties and the mark of the slave's > > > > > > > lash was involved. Before the Iraq war I protested on the > > > > > > > streets, > > > > > > > but could not find anyone to vote for who would definitely have > > > > > > > kept > > > > > > > us out of the war, though the Liberals, who I did vote for, > > > > > > > remained > > > > > > > against it in opposition. > > > > > > > Our own MP should be deselected on the basis of his lack of help > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > nastiness over neighbour problems that were very severe, but in > > > > > > > fact > > > > > > > it's difficult to get heard anywhere. > > > > > > > If we can believe global warming and related issues (to some > > > > > > > extent we > > > > > > > still cannot), the planet could only host 1.5 billion US-style > > > > > > > consumers or 15 billion Rwandan ones. War is still everywhere > > > > > > > (obviously subject to limits). Criminality, bent professions and > > > > > > > dismal business practices all lead to a lack of personal security > > > > > > > unless one conforms by exploiting one's intelligence or 'birth- > > > > > > > rights'. The press remains largely self-interested and poodle. > > > > > > > Education is increasingly about being successful gaining > > > > > > > qualifications for business as usual. Even to protest can be > > > > > > > simply > > > > > > > to join another set of businesses doing little other than support > > > > > > > lead > > > > > > > protesters in that 'success' or to assuage conscience. My guess > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > that war escalation is not far away. > > > > > > > Over the years, I've read most of the material on social change, > > > > > > > pathologies in capitalism and the Sino-Soviet experiments, the > > > > > > > great > > > > > > > myths of democratic, liberal capitalism and a whole wad of quasi- > > > > > > > philosophical organisation theories and social psychology - all of > > > > > > > which seem doomed to failure as one reads them - they rest on an > > > > > > > impossible dream of an educated, rational 'voting force' that can > > > > > > > put > > > > > > > its own interests aside under some form of a 'cloak of > > > > > > > objectivity' (a > > > > > > > term from Rawls). Many stress 'leadership', yet we know power > > > > > > > tends > > > > > > > to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I have been > > > > > > > filled > > > > > > > with Bildung from literature, myth and science, yet feel this is > > > > > > > merely a burden in a moral climate that (unlike the planet) has > > > > > > > remained frozen - not least because the Bildung itself is a path > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > 'success' as an erudite critic. It's almost like market > > > > > > > segmentation, > > > > > > > a matter of finding that section of the market in which one's > > > > > > > views > > > > > > > are saleable. > > > > > > > I want a situation in which politics and government are largely > > > > > > > unnecessary, yet I also want responsible population control and > > > > > > > lives > > > > > > > that are more about being than having, protection from bandits and > > > > > > > anti-social scum, genuine representation for my interests and > > > > > > > those of > > > > > > > others on an individual basis so that big power, wealth and so on > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > on an equal footing - clearly, if I'm honest, I'm still > > > > > > > interested in > > > > > > > control. > > > > > > > The planet probably sits back knowing (Lovelock) it can survive > > > > > > > humanity and I can probably 'survive to death' in reasonable > > > > > > > comfort > > > > > > > until it's all over (fatalism). What's on offer is hardly a hill > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > beans. > > > > > > > My own take on this situation is that the control and impotence > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > set in evolution, much in the way a wolf pack organises. What we > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > is forced on us to maintain a libidinal economy in which a few > > > > > > > exploit > > > > > > > the excess. There is merely a nagging glimmer of what else might > > > > > > > be. > > > > > > > Our politicians are mostly just cunning idiots and our media much > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > same. There is little we can do, unless we can work out why > > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > of doing makes us scared, perhaps so scared we avoid standing > > > > > > > up.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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