Our own great leader was on promising nothing as though it was everything. The Danish cops seem rather too ready with their batons. I just don't believe that we have identified any of the real problems, whether on the weather, gruesome scrotes, war, population or basic work relations in sorting out fair communities. Molly's words are heard regularly in the Ivory Tower and fully part of it, despite a certain promise in them.
On 17 Dec, 09:24, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry Molly I have to disagree with you here. Did you see any news > covargae of Copenhagan yesterday? Specifily the demonstrators, > talking about how they don't want big corperations making money from > 'Green Issues' and how it should be all of us banding together to make > real changes at grass roots level. > > Very interseting and something that I can certianly get with. How > much notice was taken of these people? Our news focused more on the > police/protester clash. These people made a lot of noise, now lets > wait and see what effect on the those with the actual power to make > changes it has, if any. > > The only political power that the avarage man in the street has ever > had is one of revolution. > > On 15 Dec, 18:00, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I think we are only politically impotent when we do not involve > > ourselves in politics in a way direct enough to allow our influence on > > the political matters that effect our lives. We are all presented > > with myriad opportunities to become directly involved with grass roots > > politics, and from there, our sphere of influence expands in direct > > relationship to our unifiying efforts. Staying in our ivory towers > > complaining about what we think is wrong in the world leads to > > impotence. Participation leads to empowerment. A reality check of > > our expectations may be in order. > > > On Dec 14, 5:43 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I think those of us that care will try Neil, and the othyers will just > > > carry on as normal. How do you make somebody care? I guess you > > > can't. > > > > On 11 Dec, 22:57, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > That seems to be the case Lee. I don't know how we beat it, just that > > > > we should try. Yet trying hurts because they are so smarmy. > > > > > On 11 Dec, 14:29, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Good question man. > > > > > > Voter apathy? Personaly I feel this impotentance myself. I can feel > > > > > the rage building every time I see one of the smarmy little sods on > > > > > TV, yep I mean politicians. > > > > > > What angers me the most is the aviodance of answering the question put > > > > > to you. Instead they take the question as an oppertunity to slag off > > > > > the opposition(okay I can expect a certian amount of this with a > > > > > general election due) or answer a question they really wish to answer, > > > > > but not the one asked. > > > > > > Why do I feel impotent? Because I know no matter which way I vote, > > > > > due to the ammount of people that just wont bother, and the ammount of > > > > > people that will vote not according to their conciounse, but in line > > > > > with what the media portrays, well I fear we'll have no more than a > > > > > repeat of what has been going on for as long as I can remember. > > > > > > People get fed up with fed up with the sleaze of present goverment as > > > > > portayed in the media, and just vote the opposition in, no matter who > > > > > that opposition is. Then perhaps 8, or 10, or 12 years later people > > > > > get pissed off with the sleaze of goverement and vote the opposition > > > > > in. Round and round we go again and again. > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 13:48, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Most people I've known anywhere in the world have had little time > > > > > > for > > > > > > politics. The basic reason given is that politicians feather their > > > > > > own nests. Fear and ingroup hatreds often lead to tribal or > > > > > > sectarian > > > > > > voting. Perhaps, underneath this, is that many just want to get on > > > > > > with their own lives - something most people see as harmless. Most > > > > > > people also feel their efforts would be useless a kind of impotence > > > > > > seems involved. I have never found it possible to vote for changes > > > > > > I > > > > > > really want, though I usually turn out at the ballot. Whips were > > > > > > originally slaves used to whip in recalcitrant citizens - a double > > > > > > shame of not carrying out civic duties and the mark of the slave's > > > > > > lash was involved. Before the Iraq war I protested on the streets, > > > > > > but could not find anyone to vote for who would definitely have kept > > > > > > us out of the war, though the Liberals, who I did vote for, remained > > > > > > against it in opposition. > > > > > > Our own MP should be deselected on the basis of his lack of help and > > > > > > nastiness over neighbour problems that were very severe, but in fact > > > > > > it's difficult to get heard anywhere. > > > > > > If we can believe global warming and related issues (to some extent > > > > > > we > > > > > > still cannot), the planet could only host 1.5 billion US-style > > > > > > consumers or 15 billion Rwandan ones. War is still everywhere > > > > > > (obviously subject to limits). Criminality, bent professions and > > > > > > dismal business practices all lead to a lack of personal security > > > > > > unless one conforms by exploiting one's intelligence or 'birth- > > > > > > rights'. The press remains largely self-interested and poodle. > > > > > > Education is increasingly about being successful gaining > > > > > > qualifications for business as usual. Even to protest can be simply > > > > > > to join another set of businesses doing little other than support > > > > > > lead > > > > > > protesters in that 'success' or to assuage conscience. My guess is > > > > > > that war escalation is not far away. > > > > > > Over the years, I've read most of the material on social change, > > > > > > pathologies in capitalism and the Sino-Soviet experiments, the great > > > > > > myths of democratic, liberal capitalism and a whole wad of quasi- > > > > > > philosophical organisation theories and social psychology - all of > > > > > > which seem doomed to failure as one reads them - they rest on an > > > > > > impossible dream of an educated, rational 'voting force' that can > > > > > > put > > > > > > its own interests aside under some form of a 'cloak of objectivity' > > > > > > (a > > > > > > term from Rawls). Many stress 'leadership', yet we know power tends > > > > > > to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I have been > > > > > > filled > > > > > > with Bildung from literature, myth and science, yet feel this is > > > > > > merely a burden in a moral climate that (unlike the planet) has > > > > > > remained frozen - not least because the Bildung itself is a path to > > > > > > 'success' as an erudite critic. It's almost like market > > > > > > segmentation, > > > > > > a matter of finding that section of the market in which one's views > > > > > > are saleable. > > > > > > I want a situation in which politics and government are largely > > > > > > unnecessary, yet I also want responsible population control and > > > > > > lives > > > > > > that are more about being than having, protection from bandits and > > > > > > anti-social scum, genuine representation for my interests and those > > > > > > of > > > > > > others on an individual basis so that big power, wealth and so on > > > > > > are > > > > > > on an equal footing - clearly, if I'm honest, I'm still interested > > > > > > in > > > > > > control. > > > > > > The planet probably sits back knowing (Lovelock) it can survive > > > > > > humanity and I can probably 'survive to death' in reasonable comfort > > > > > > until it's all over (fatalism). What's on offer is hardly a hill of > > > > > > beans. > > > > > > My own take on this situation is that the control and impotence are > > > > > > set in evolution, much in the way a wolf pack organises. What we > > > > > > have > > > > > > is forced on us to maintain a libidinal economy in which a few > > > > > > exploit > > > > > > the excess. There is merely a nagging glimmer of what else might > > > > > > be. > > > > > > Our politicians are mostly just cunning idiots and our media much > > > > > > the > > > > > > same. There is little we can do, unless we can work out why > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > of doing makes us scared, perhaps so scared we avoid standing up.- > > > > > > Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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