You get my point! On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On 18 Dec, 08:24, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > DJ, what is your post about ? The best way to respond is to try to > > say it in a word, a line, a paragraph, or a structured brief. > > > > " Why would you not trust Americans?" The answer is : Fundamentally, > > for the same reason I do not trust myself. Also, because there is > > historical evidence of its behaviour upon the rest of the world that > > deems it untrustworthy in my view. And, the fact is that it is managed > > by oligarchs, not by individuals trained in the art of management by > > truth ! > > > > The US emits 22 tonnes of carbon emissions per capita. India, and > > other countries, have about 1, more or less. This ratio might have > > been still worse 30 years ago. The US, UK and some European countries > > have been at it for a century now. And look at what how they are > > behaving at Copenhagen. That is, if you can see the more truthful ways > > to behave, to say, to propose ... > > > > If you display behaviour in disregard of truth, you can hardly be > > trustworthy ! > > > > Indeed. Not to mention the 'put-on' high morality given the drugs > trade, prostitution, homelessness, unemployment, general lack of car > for the general public and, oh yeah, remember the times(!) when we > (the U.S.) gave out blankets--purposefully infested with smallpox--to > Native Americans specifically to wage an underhanded biological war > against them? How many of the treaties we made with Native Americans > did we keep to? 1, I think it is, but we may well have broken that by > now. > > Vam is right, Slip/dj, there are plenty of reasons not to trust > America (in general), but that doesn't mean that the individuals > themselves are all that bad. The very same is true, in the reverse, > with certain elements within Islam; i.e., there are certain elements > that are dangerous (no more dangerous, though, than the neo-con > fundamentalist Christians!!) but that doesn't transfer to all Muslims, > by any means. In fact, Islam itself is far more cooperative in nature > than most people think (Saladin SPARED the population of Jerusalem > when he conquered it, unlike the Christians 88 years prior!!). But, > in order to find out about it, you have to be willing to engage them. > Which implies dropping the 'automatic fear' of the unknown. Learn > about them and they won't be unknown. This was an implied part of > Jesus' concept of 'Love your enemies' speech: > > Matthew 5:43-48 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shall > love thy neighbor, and hate your enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love > your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate > you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; > 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for > he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain > on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, > what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye > salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even > the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father > which is in heaven is perfect. > > THAT'S the Christian message and it has nothing to do with abject fear > but, rather, by treating everyone as well as you can. > > > On Dec 18, 4:04 am, dj Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I would say this that there is a reality that is not irrational > thoughts. > > > When you have on Sept 11-happens or any other bombings in other > countries- > > > and the precautions that we take is awareness as good citizens and the > > > concerns are real but what do we do about? Be aware of it. > Generalisations > > > is not what Slip meant. And What you are saying is work it out in > > > yourself? I am not speaking for Slip but understanding it I do. If > you saw > > > the reality of how easy it would be to do these things in > society.....Well > > > lets say this it would be to much to think about and then what good > would it > > > do? To shut ones eyes to reality as if you are sticking your head in > the > > > sand! If we all did this what would we have? fight the good fight > and if > > > you have the oppuntunity to make a difference in the things that > surrounds > > > you. If it is in your heart or of your concerns. Shove dirt > underneath the > > > rug long enough and it piles up and is harder to get rid of it and is > more > > > work or it will be at your back door. Say if we all were aware and had > the > > > couarge when we see things to do something about it..whatever that may > > > be..Americans on most part as other countries have good people in them. > I > > > would like to ask you this question: Why would you not trust > Americans? > > > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Vamadevananda <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > " ... when an incident like Fort Hood takes place and a group of home > > > > grown teenagers take off to kill me and mine on top of all the other > > > > attacks in the past, one does become very wary." > > > > > > We all would be wary, Slip ! It is when we form generalisations, > > > > instead of working out things in our mind and taking actual > > > > precaution, that our words and behaviour becomes irrational. > > > > > > What is there to discuss ? How to handle our fear, in our mind ? > > > > What precautions do we take ? > > > > > > Or, do we discuss our irrational thoughts, words and behaviour ? ! > > > > > > Personally, Muslims do not make me nervous. Terrorists and extremists > > > > everywhere, including Americans, do. > > > > > > On Dec 17, 8:46 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Pat, this is all getting very messy. Lee is tossing around phrases > > > > > like "...all Muslims feel way that Slip says they do.", which I > never > > > > > stated and you are saying that I'm worried about people who speak > an > > > > > Islamic language when the example was to be interpreted within the > > > > > context it was written. It is not the worrying about a language > that > > > > > is the issue but what the language represents. If all the > terrorist > > > > > acts over that past 20 years were committed by some radical Polish > > > > > group and we replace the two Islamic men in the elevator with two > men > > > > > speaking Polish, it would clearly become a case of worrying about > the > > > > > two men speaking Polish because we don't know if they have a bomb > in > > > > > their attache case. Simple really. This is not to say that I'm > > > > > worried about "all" people who speak Polish or that I think "all" > > > > > Polish people have the same intent as Lee would imply but simply > that > > > > > in view of years of attacks by "ANY" group identifiable by language > > > > > would instill a certain level of fear in any given society. I know > it > > > > > is an unfortunate fact but nonetheless it is and further holds true > in > > > > > other areas of social deviation such as pedophilia. It is not that > > > > > "all" Catholic priests are bad but I still would not let a 9 year > old > > > > > boy go traipsing off into the woods with Father O'Feeley, and I'm > sure > > > > > you can see why. So in summation it is in that perspective that I > > > > > feel concerned about the intent of people who fit the description > of > > > > > the terrorists, Hasan types in social employ or teenagers from > Muslim > > > > > families. I don't hate Muslim people but you would have to admit > that > > > > > when an incident like Fort Hood takes place and a group of home > grown > > > > > teenagers take off to kill me and mine on top of all the other > attacks > > > > > in the past, one does become very wary. > > > > > As far as the Governments manipulation of world affairs, > instigation > > > > > of political coups and overall butting into other people's business > > > > > for the sake of self gain, I do understand your point about > > > > > retaliatory attacks, but that doesn't make me fee any safer. If it > > > > > were up to me I would pull out of every country in the world, > disband > > > > > all military, turn all the weapons into plowshares and set an > example > > > > > of how to propagate Peace on Earth and Good Will to ALL People! > We > > > > > can change the world by setting an example but unfortunately the > > > > > example we set is one of military power and aggression. > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 6:47 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 17 Dec, 02:13, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well your turning the hostility around, reversing the direction > of > > > > the > > > > > > > hostility. If anything the hostility is originating from Islam > and > > > > we > > > > > > > seem to be the targets. My intended focus was towards the > incidences > > > > > > > that have been reported by reputable sources not some tabloid > rag. I > > > > > > > think that a majority of people globally feel threatened by the > > > > > > > increase in Muslim populations, especially considering all the > > > > > > > problems arising from their presence. I didn't think much of > it when > > > > > > > they had rioting in Paris several years back but now I see a > > > > > > > continuing trend towards more serious violent acts aimed at > killing > > > > > > > innocent people, as per the examples I have cited. How many > more > > > > > > > Hasans are hiding behind the shroud of peace and how many more > > > > > > > teenagers are out their waiting for the opportunity to strike? > We > > > > are > > > > > > > a multi cultural country but the only culture that seems to be > > > > causing > > > > > > > concern is that of the Muslims. Pat has expended much energy > on > > > > > > > pointing out the various faiths within faiths which actually > > > > validates > > > > > > > my point that religion segments societies and has been > throughout > > > > > > > history the root of many wars and atrocities still to this day. > I'm > > > > > > > not worried about Irish people nor German, Italian, Polish, > French > > > > and > > > > > > > dozens of others. I'm worried about some Hasan copy cat > opening fire > > > > > > > on a group of people or a group of Muslim teenagers committing > some > > > > > > > heinous act that will take the lives of innocent people. As I > > > > pointed > > > > > > > out to Justin, this is not something that just popped up out of > > > > > > > nowhere, but has been happening for quite sometime and is still > > > > > > > happening but is getting more frequent and insidious in nature. > I > > > > > > > don't think God intended for us to come up with a slew of > religious > > > > > > > figures to believe in nor multi-Gods to worship. I don't even > know if > > > > > > > we are supposed to worship anything. Why can't we just live > and > > > > > > > enjoy? > > > > > > > I do own the movie Gran Torino and I don't think that it > applies to > > > > > > > what I talking about. I think it is natural for people to > develop > > > > > > > fear of a specific race/culture when that race/culture is out > and > > > > > > > about killing people, its no different than the fear arising > from a > > > > > > > serial killer on the loose, everyone becomes suspect. Your > stance > > > > > > > reminds me of the political correctness position taken on > racial > > > > > > > profiling and as a result my 87 year old mother had to undergo > > > > > > > scrutiny at the airport, removing her jacket for inspection. > Its not > > > > > > > age old grannies that are hijacking planes and carrying out > suicide > > > > > > > missions but it is the ____________ people. Simply fill in the > blank > > > > > > > for a reality check. > > > > > > > > > Picture this, your are on an elevator, the other passengers > consist > > > > of > > > > > > > two old ladies, a mom holding a baby and three children aged 3, > 5 and > > > > > > > 7, an old man with a cane and two men in the corner each with > an > > > > > > > attache case and speaking any Islamic language. Ok, who are > you > > > > > > > worried about? Me? I wouldn't even get on the elevator if I > heard > > > > > > > them talking. Sorry but that is that way it is and it is > getting > > > > > > > worse. This is a real situation, but I didn't cause it, they > did. > > > > > > > > Your worry about people speaking an "Islamic language" speaks > > > > > > volumes. English is an Islamic language. That is, there are > Muslims > > > > > > who speak it. Let me put it in Christian speak for you (English > is > > > > > > also a Christian language!!): "And why beholdest thou the mote > that is > > > > > > in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in > thine > > > > > > own eye?" That quote, of Jesus, was not originally spoken in > English, > > > > > > obviously. The point is that when you said "Islamic language", I > > > > > > really don't think you have any ground to stand on. > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
