On 18 Dec, 08:24, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > DJ, what is your post about ? The best way to respond is to try to > say it in a word, a line, a paragraph, or a structured brief. > > " Why would you not trust Americans?" The answer is : Fundamentally, > for the same reason I do not trust myself. Also, because there is > historical evidence of its behaviour upon the rest of the world that > deems it untrustworthy in my view. And, the fact is that it is managed > by oligarchs, not by individuals trained in the art of management by > truth ! > > The US emits 22 tonnes of carbon emissions per capita. India, and > other countries, have about 1, more or less. This ratio might have > been still worse 30 years ago. The US, UK and some European countries > have been at it for a century now. And look at what how they are > behaving at Copenhagen. That is, if you can see the more truthful ways > to behave, to say, to propose ... > > If you display behaviour in disregard of truth, you can hardly be > trustworthy ! >
Indeed. Not to mention the 'put-on' high morality given the drugs trade, prostitution, homelessness, unemployment, general lack of car for the general public and, oh yeah, remember the times(!) when we (the U.S.) gave out blankets--purposefully infested with smallpox--to Native Americans specifically to wage an underhanded biological war against them? How many of the treaties we made with Native Americans did we keep to? 1, I think it is, but we may well have broken that by now. Vam is right, Slip/dj, there are plenty of reasons not to trust America (in general), but that doesn't mean that the individuals themselves are all that bad. The very same is true, in the reverse, with certain elements within Islam; i.e., there are certain elements that are dangerous (no more dangerous, though, than the neo-con fundamentalist Christians!!) but that doesn't transfer to all Muslims, by any means. In fact, Islam itself is far more cooperative in nature than most people think (Saladin SPARED the population of Jerusalem when he conquered it, unlike the Christians 88 years prior!!). But, in order to find out about it, you have to be willing to engage them. Which implies dropping the 'automatic fear' of the unknown. Learn about them and they won't be unknown. This was an implied part of Jesus' concept of 'Love your enemies' speech: Matthew 5:43-48 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shall love thy neighbor, and hate your enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. THAT'S the Christian message and it has nothing to do with abject fear but, rather, by treating everyone as well as you can. > On Dec 18, 4:04 am, dj Briscoe <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I would say this that there is a reality that is not irrational thoughts. > > When you have on Sept 11-happens or any other bombings in other countries- > > and the precautions that we take is awareness as good citizens and the > > concerns are real but what do we do about? Be aware of it. Generalisations > > is not what Slip meant. And What you are saying is work it out in > > yourself? I am not speaking for Slip but understanding it I do. If you saw > > the reality of how easy it would be to do these things in society.....Well > > lets say this it would be to much to think about and then what good would it > > do? To shut ones eyes to reality as if you are sticking your head in the > > sand! If we all did this what would we have? fight the good fight and if > > you have the oppuntunity to make a difference in the things that surrounds > > you. If it is in your heart or of your concerns. Shove dirt underneath the > > rug long enough and it piles up and is harder to get rid of it and is more > > work or it will be at your back door. Say if we all were aware and had the > > couarge when we see things to do something about it..whatever that may > > be..Americans on most part as other countries have good people in them. I > > would like to ask you this question: Why would you not trust Americans? > > > On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Vamadevananda > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > " ... when an incident like Fort Hood takes place and a group of home > > > grown teenagers take off to kill me and mine on top of all the other > > > attacks in the past, one does become very wary." > > > > We all would be wary, Slip ! It is when we form generalisations, > > > instead of working out things in our mind and taking actual > > > precaution, that our words and behaviour becomes irrational. > > > > What is there to discuss ? How to handle our fear, in our mind ? > > > What precautions do we take ? > > > > Or, do we discuss our irrational thoughts, words and behaviour ? ! > > > > Personally, Muslims do not make me nervous. Terrorists and extremists > > > everywhere, including Americans, do. > > > > On Dec 17, 8:46 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Pat, this is all getting very messy. Lee is tossing around phrases > > > > like "...all Muslims feel way that Slip says they do.", which I never > > > > stated and you are saying that I'm worried about people who speak an > > > > Islamic language when the example was to be interpreted within the > > > > context it was written. It is not the worrying about a language that > > > > is the issue but what the language represents. If all the terrorist > > > > acts over that past 20 years were committed by some radical Polish > > > > group and we replace the two Islamic men in the elevator with two men > > > > speaking Polish, it would clearly become a case of worrying about the > > > > two men speaking Polish because we don't know if they have a bomb in > > > > their attache case. Simple really. This is not to say that I'm > > > > worried about "all" people who speak Polish or that I think "all" > > > > Polish people have the same intent as Lee would imply but simply that > > > > in view of years of attacks by "ANY" group identifiable by language > > > > would instill a certain level of fear in any given society. I know it > > > > is an unfortunate fact but nonetheless it is and further holds true in > > > > other areas of social deviation such as pedophilia. It is not that > > > > "all" Catholic priests are bad but I still would not let a 9 year old > > > > boy go traipsing off into the woods with Father O'Feeley, and I'm sure > > > > you can see why. So in summation it is in that perspective that I > > > > feel concerned about the intent of people who fit the description of > > > > the terrorists, Hasan types in social employ or teenagers from Muslim > > > > families. I don't hate Muslim people but you would have to admit that > > > > when an incident like Fort Hood takes place and a group of home grown > > > > teenagers take off to kill me and mine on top of all the other attacks > > > > in the past, one does become very wary. > > > > As far as the Governments manipulation of world affairs, instigation > > > > of political coups and overall butting into other people's business > > > > for the sake of self gain, I do understand your point about > > > > retaliatory attacks, but that doesn't make me fee any safer. If it > > > > were up to me I would pull out of every country in the world, disband > > > > all military, turn all the weapons into plowshares and set an example > > > > of how to propagate Peace on Earth and Good Will to ALL People! We > > > > can change the world by setting an example but unfortunately the > > > > example we set is one of military power and aggression. > > > > > On Dec 17, 6:47 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 17 Dec, 02:13, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Well your turning the hostility around, reversing the direction of > > > the > > > > > > hostility. If anything the hostility is originating from Islam and > > > we > > > > > > seem to be the targets. My intended focus was towards the > > > > > > incidences > > > > > > that have been reported by reputable sources not some tabloid rag. > > > > > > I > > > > > > think that a majority of people globally feel threatened by the > > > > > > increase in Muslim populations, especially considering all the > > > > > > problems arising from their presence. I didn't think much of it > > > > > > when > > > > > > they had rioting in Paris several years back but now I see a > > > > > > continuing trend towards more serious violent acts aimed at killing > > > > > > innocent people, as per the examples I have cited. How many more > > > > > > Hasans are hiding behind the shroud of peace and how many more > > > > > > teenagers are out their waiting for the opportunity to strike? We > > > are > > > > > > a multi cultural country but the only culture that seems to be > > > causing > > > > > > concern is that of the Muslims. Pat has expended much energy on > > > > > > pointing out the various faiths within faiths which actually > > > validates > > > > > > my point that religion segments societies and has been throughout > > > > > > history the root of many wars and atrocities still to this day. I'm > > > > > > not worried about Irish people nor German, Italian, Polish, French > > > and > > > > > > dozens of others. I'm worried about some Hasan copy cat opening > > > > > > fire > > > > > > on a group of people or a group of Muslim teenagers committing some > > > > > > heinous act that will take the lives of innocent people. As I > > > pointed > > > > > > out to Justin, this is not something that just popped up out of > > > > > > nowhere, but has been happening for quite sometime and is still > > > > > > happening but is getting more frequent and insidious in nature. I > > > > > > don't think God intended for us to come up with a slew of religious > > > > > > figures to believe in nor multi-Gods to worship. I don't even know > > > > > > if > > > > > > we are supposed to worship anything. Why can't we just live and > > > > > > enjoy? > > > > > > I do own the movie Gran Torino and I don't think that it applies to > > > > > > what I talking about. I think it is natural for people to develop > > > > > > fear of a specific race/culture when that race/culture is out and > > > > > > about killing people, its no different than the fear arising from a > > > > > > serial killer on the loose, everyone becomes suspect. Your stance > > > > > > reminds me of the political correctness position taken on racial > > > > > > profiling and as a result my 87 year old mother had to undergo > > > > > > scrutiny at the airport, removing her jacket for inspection. Its > > > > > > not > > > > > > age old grannies that are hijacking planes and carrying out suicide > > > > > > missions but it is the ____________ people. Simply fill in the > > > > > > blank > > > > > > for a reality check. > > > > > > > Picture this, your are on an elevator, the other passengers consist > > > of > > > > > > two old ladies, a mom holding a baby and three children aged 3, 5 > > > > > > and > > > > > > 7, an old man with a cane and two men in the corner each with an > > > > > > attache case and speaking any Islamic language. Ok, who are you > > > > > > worried about? Me? I wouldn't even get on the elevator if I heard > > > > > > them talking. Sorry but that is that way it is and it is getting > > > > > > worse. This is a real situation, but I didn't cause it, they did. > > > > > > Your worry about people speaking an "Islamic language" speaks > > > > > volumes. English is an Islamic language. That is, there are Muslims > > > > > who speak it. Let me put it in Christian speak for you (English is > > > > > also a Christian language!!): "And why beholdest thou the mote that is > > > > > in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine > > > > > own eye?" That quote, of Jesus, was not originally spoken in English, > > > > > obviously. The point is that when you said "Islamic language", I > > > > > really don't think you have any ground to stand on. > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
