On Jan 12, 3:48 am, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why do so few people (otherwise intelligent for the most part) have
> such a tweaked view of science? I'm so tired of hearing it described
> as a religion (oh ya, well you worship science!), a dogma (ya but
> since science says...then you have to believe it!), a choice (just
> because you like science, doesn't mean I have to!), ETC...!!!!!
> Science is a method of understanding the world around the person in
> question. It is not an alternate to religion.
Science isn't a religion, or an alternative to religion, but scientism
is like a religion, and is an alternative to religion. It's not hard
to see that people sometimes confuse science with scientism (whether
or not they believe in scientism), unless you deny that the word
'scientism' has any clear meaning. Do you?
> Science is the direct examination of evidence. It is only useful when
> contemplating something testable or checkable.
> Have you ever had a leak and systematically checked for which pipe it
> was? Welcome to science.
> Have you ever had question and looked for an answer or asked someone
> that has? welcome to science.
> Have you ever altered a recipe because something sounded good or you
> thought might work? welcome to science.
Fair enough.
> If you have ever prayed for your pipe to stop leaking, prayed for an
> answer, or prayed for food to make itself, you aren't a scientist and
> very likely will never have the capacity for science.
I'm not a believer in any formal religion, yet I think I sometimes
pray. Most often, I only pray in a silly way, when I am merely
desperate for some unknown entity to step in and help me, but it's not
always so silly. Sometimes I have some belief in something or Someone
I am praying to.
> Science does not give a damn about you or your feelings
What, then, does one do with a self or with feelings that have gone
awry? Turn to science? To psychiatric medication, perhaps, because
the brain at least is a tangible object for scientific enquiry? Is
psychiatry scientific?
> it is a concept and a method, not a consoler for delusion or failure.
But delusion and failure are part of the human condition. Is there,
then, no difference between truth and falsehood, in any of the ways of
addressing our human limitations and failings? Is one religion, or
one therapeutic fad, as good, or as bad, as any another? If science
cannot address a question, then does that question have no answer, or
will any old answer do as well as another?
> Science does not care about oneness or deities. Since these are
> generally self defeating logical concepts
Can you logically demonstrate their alleged self-defeating quality?
> and not concepts that appear
> in the natural world, science COULD NOT speak on them and never does.
Whereof science cannot speak, must all remain silent?
> Science does not care about whether or not you are confused on some
> philosophical concept. Science can however, allow you to explore and
> investigate an amazing world surrounded by a complex solar system, in
> a superbly beautiful galaxy.
I can be lost in wonder at the structure of the ribosome, or the
Triangulum galaxy, or the set of zeros of the Riemann zeta function
(but is mathematics a science?), and at the human mind(s) that can
discover (or invent) such things, but there is much to wonder about
that does not seem to form a subject for scientific enquiry, but is at
least as important as anything in science, such as ethics. ("The
starry heavens above, the moral law within.")
> Science can allow you to understand that simply existing is such a
> beautiful and awesome concept, that no little metaphysical idea needs
> be entertained if one wants to be amazed, confused, or challenged by
> everything that they purport to search for.
I can't see what you are saying here. You have some sense of beauty
and awe (good, that speaks well of you), but you seem to be saying
that you owe it all to science, in much the same pious way that
religious people are often inclined modestly to attribute all good
human qualities to God. Is this not somewhat religious of you? If
not, then what exactly are you saying, in scientific terms?
> -Personal note:-
> It will take all of your energy and attention to understand even a
> small amount of the knowledge that awaits you and is literally just
> sitting there waiting for you to find it. Don't waste life on unproven
> concepts reinforced with prophets and people that are proven to be
> wrong and/or nonexistent.
I can never get rid of my feeling of stupidity for not yet seeming to
have seen this 'proof' that is supposed to be out there somewhere: a
proof that all manner of things (never exactly specified, it seems) do
not exist, and that belief in all manner of things is 'irrational'.
To take a specific example of something in which I believe personally,
which I think of as being 'paranormal', yet which I do not think of as
being either 'supernatural' (breaking natural laws) or
'irrational' (contradicting itself, or contradicting other well-
established beliefs which I hold): are you aware of some knock-down
logical or empirical argument that C. G. Jung's concept of
synchronicity is somehow a nonsensical idea, or a false theory? (It's
certainly very bewildering and disorientating.)
(I don't even know how to define 'paranormal', but I am amused to find
this, in Wikipedia: "*Paranormal* is a general term that describes
unusual experiences that lack a scientific explanation, or phenomena
alleged to be outside of science's current ability to explain or
measure [...] but the scientific community [...] maintains that
scientific evidence does not support paranormal beliefs." No shit,
Sherlock!)
(Sorry if this is too long, or incoherent, or typographically or
stylistically ill-formed - it's my first attempt to post to this
forum, and therefore a bit of an experiment in many respects.)
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