On 20 Jan, 23:50, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > You missed the second sentence. I recognized the established temporal > dimension but we still cannot assign elements within it. It isn't > about demonstrating the continuum but about your assigning past, > present and future "Events". I'm just not buying the existence of a > consciousness within a quantum dynamic. If it is all spelled out > already then can you put together a calender of the events so I could > prepare for them, but you can't because you don't really know that > there is a pre-established plan by a consciousness. There is no > itinerary, no plan. >
My own consciousness serves as evidence of consciousness within the continuum. A continuum, by definition, MUST contain ALL elements within the continuum. In this case, those elements are spatio- temporal events. I can't put together a calendar of future events because I, like you, do not have access TO the future (nor do I have thre total quantum state of the universe, which is what would be required to accurately predict the future). The fact that all spatio- temporal events already exist within the space-time continuum IS the itinerary OF events, it is the "Clear Record" that the Qur'an alludes to. It is the plan. Of course you don't have to accept that, you can hide your head in the sand and that will be just another spatio- temporal event, that, if you do, will be evidence that it was always going to be the case. Somehow, I just don't think you're ready to handle this aspect of truth...and I mena no offense by that, as I strongly suspect, millions feel the same way. Although that doesn't alter the truth, rather, it defines it. > On Jan 20, 8:53 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 20 Jan, 12:50, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Unfortunately the continuum seems to be your lack of evidence to make > > > this claim, its speculative at best. Even with an established > > > temporal dimension there is no way to project contents within it, > > > especially a conscious event planner utilizing structured intervals. > > > The universe is not fixed but in a constant state of flux dependent on > > > numerous degrees and densities within fields etc. Regardless of the > > > number of dimensions, we are still operating on a single temporal > > > dimension, a small niche in the scheme of things. The numerous > > > offerings of mathematical and anthropic concepts only leads to > > > numerous equations, none of which solidify the soup. > > > The continuum has been demonstrated time and time again (pardon the > > pun!!) through time dilation. It's a fact. The temporal dimension is > > knitted to the spatial ones and that's been proven through time > > dilation. The temporal dimension is NOT separate from those that are > > spatial. My evidence is SOLID! > > > > On Jan 20, 5:49 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 20 Jan, 01:42, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > How do you establish that it IS a plan? What evidence do you have that > > > > > makes you so certain? > > > > > The existence of the space-time continuum, that contains all spatio- > > > > temporal events: past, present and future. > > > > > > On Jan 19, 11:26 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 19 Jan, 15:13, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > That may happen but the predictability is sketchy, tectonic > > > > > > > activity > > > > > > > is fickle. I'm also wondering, and you might speculate on this, > > > > > > > if in > > > > > > > fact disasters are a way to cull the population of human > > > > > > > habitation on > > > > > > > planet Earth. I mean there are other forms of natural culling > > > > > > > such as > > > > > > > predator and prey and disease. So could these disasters be a > > > > > > > Divine > > > > > > > plan to maintain population levels. > > > > > > > Of course, they COULD be. There is nothing that happens that isn't > > > > > > a > > > > > > part of the plan. The space-time continuum always 'held' this event > > > > > > in it. We just finally came to the point where it happened. > > > > > > > >Basically what I'm seeing here is > > > > > > > thousands of years for the population to reach half of what it is > > > > > > > today and the short period of time in which it has doubled. The > > > > > > > ramifications are serious famines in a broader sense, ie; once > > > > > > > prosperous regions will fail to accommodate the needs of the > > > > > > > population. As it stands today we are not feeding the world; > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > are we going to be in another 50 years?. > > > > > > > So next time you talk to your God ask if this is part of the plan. > > > > > > > I already know the answer. Yes, it IS. > > > > > > > > On Jan 19, 7:16 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 19 Jan, 12:45, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Some Food for Thought > > > > > > > > > > Editor's note: Elizabeth McAlister is a professor of religion > > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > > Wesleyan University. > > > > > > > > > > (CNN) -- We are all sick at heart to witness the unfathomable > > > > > > > > > suffering in Haiti. Why do bad things happen to innocent > > > > > > > > > people? Why > > > > > > > > > Haiti, again? Even Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said > > > > > > > > > recently, > > > > > > > > > "It is biblical, the tragedy that continues to stalk Haiti > > > > > > > > > and the > > > > > > > > > Haitian people." > > > > > > > > > > How we make meaning of this suffering will be crucial to how > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > respond, in the long term, as a global community. > > > > > > > > > > My Haitian in-laws, visiting from Boston, Massachusetts, to > > > > > > > > > take some > > > > > > > > > comfort with us, announced that the verse of the day on their > > > > > > > > > favorite > > > > > > > > > Bible Web site is from Revelation 16:18. "And there were > > > > > > > > > voices and > > > > > > > > > thunders and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, > > > > > > > > > such as has > > > > > > > > > not been since men were upon the earth, so mighty an > > > > > > > > > earthquake and so > > > > > > > > > great." > > > > > > > > > > The word "earthquake" appears sixteen times in the Bible. It > > > > > > > > > was clear > > > > > > > > > to them -- and many other Christians -- that the earthquake > > > > > > > > > was part > > > > > > > > > of God's plan. Why God ordains such disasters is a mystery > > > > > > > > > that is not > > > > > > > > > ours to question. It is only our job to have faith. > > > > > > > > > > A friend who barely escaped the collapse of her house in the > > > > > > > > > quake > > > > > > > > > writes that people in her Port-au-Prince neighborhood are > > > > > > > > > living this > > > > > > > > > time as the apocalypse. They are gathering en masse, singing > > > > > > > > > hymns and > > > > > > > > > praying nonstop as they wait for disaster aid -- and Jesus. > > > > > > > > > > For them, the meaning of their suffering is clear. How else to > > > > > > > > > interpret the collapse of their entire world, earthquake, > > > > > > > > > famine, > > > > > > > > > death, disease and drought? They are God's children living > > > > > > > > > out the > > > > > > > > > last chapter of the Bible. > > > > > > > > > > Fundamentalist Pat Robertson says that the earthquake is the > > > > > > > > > devil's > > > > > > > > > work. Haitians are cursed by a pact with Satan that their > > > > > > > > > ancestors > > > > > > > > > made, he says. Distorting a Haitian national myth, he is > > > > > > > > > referring to > > > > > > > > > a famous Afro-Creole religious service said to have sparked > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > launched the Haitian War of Independence in 1791. Ironically, > > > > > > > > > historians tell us that such a single ceremony never happened > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > although surely there were many slave gatherings, and many > > > > > > > > > Afro-Creole > > > > > > > > > religious rituals in the region. > > > > > > > > > > Haitians do not mistake African religiosity for Satanism as > > > > > > > > > Robertson > > > > > > > > > does, so for them the ceremony was a spiritually charged > > > > > > > > > political > > > > > > > > > rally. Slaves gathered to plan and inspire themselves for the > > > > > > > > > outrageous feat they would succeed in performing: a slave > > > > > > > > > revolution, > > > > > > > > > the abolition of slavery, and by 1804, national independence. > > > > > > > > > > Afro-Creole religion, known as Vodou, still underpins the > > > > > > > > > philosophy > > > > > > > > > of many Haitians, though by no means everyone. A > > > > > > > > > spirit-priest I know > > > > > > > > > reads the earthquake as an allegorical message from the > > > > > > > > > spirits who > > > > > > > > > infuse the land. "The land is our mother," he said. When you > > > > > > > > > abuse the > > > > > > > > > land -- deforest her, plant only one crop, overpopulate her, > > > > > > > > > erode her > > > > > > > > > soil -- she explodes, searching for a way to rebalance. > > > > > > > > > > The spirit of the land had become sick with abuse. Her > > > > > > > > > children -- the > > > > > > > > > eldest ones, the ones in charge, the Haitian government -- > > > > > > > > > had no > > > > > > > > > policies, no laws to protect the land or use it wisely. The > > > > > > > > > spirit- > > > > > > > > > mother exploded with fever. "We know this has a scientific > > > > > > > > > cause," > > > > > > > > > said the spirit-priest. "But look how the government > > > > > > > > > buildings caved > > > > > > > > > in. This tells us something." > > > > > > > > > > In the last several years there has been a saying among > > > > > > > > > Haitians that > > > > > > > > > "the country is finished." "Peyi-a fini," they say in Creole. > > > > > > > > > It has > > > > > > > > > been called a dying land, a failed state, a product of > > > > > > > > > irreversible > > > > > > > > > environmental degradation. > > > > > > > > > > For social scientists, there is nothing metaphysical about the > > > > > > > > > question "Why Haiti?" Longstanding structural reasons have > > > > > > > > > produced a > > > > > > > > > dysfunctional system long in crisis. Beginning as a French > > > > > > > > > slave > > > > > > > > > society, the nation was founded at a severe disadvantage. > > > > > > > > > France > > > > > > > > > demanded enormous payment for abandoned property after the > > > > > > > > > revolution, > > > > > > > > > starting a cycle of debt that was never broken. > > > > > > > > > > Deep and abiding racism prevented the U.S. and Europe from > > > > > > > > > recognizing > > > > > > > > > Haiti for 60 years. Trade was never established on even > > > > > > > > > terms. The > > > > > > > > > military ruled the state, culminating in the brutal Duvalier > > > > > > > > > dictatorship, which the U.S. supported. > > > > > > > > > > No robust civil society developed -- there's no vigorous > > > > > > > > > tradition of > > > > > > > > > PTAs and town planning boards. A brain drain evacuated top > > > > > > > > > talent from > > > > > > > > > the country, while the U.S.-subsidized farm industry sent > > > > > > > > > surplus > > > > > > > > > crops to Haiti, undercutting local prices there. Farmers > > > > > > > > > abandoned > > > > > > > > > their lands, flocked to the capital, and built the shanty > > > > > > > > > towns that > > > > > > > > > have now collapsed into rubble, burying the innocent and > > > > > > > > > vulnerable, > > > > > > > > > strong and powerful alike. > > > > > > > > > > The suffering Haitians are enduring is a natural disaster > > > > > > > > > worsened by > > > > > > > > > human-made conditions. It is a spiritual crucible. But it is > > > > > > > > > also a > > > > > > > > > crisis of meaning. For Christians it is to have faith, hope, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > charity. For fundamentalist Protestants, it is to convert all > > > > > > > > > souls, > > > > > > > > > give aid, and wait for Jesus' return. For Vodouists, it is to > > > > > > > > > regain > > > > > > > > > balance with the land and the unseen spiritual world. > > > > > > > > > > For many social scientists, it is to > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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