*laughing* Bring him to me, and I'll thank him personally.
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Pat <[email protected]>wrote: > > > On 29 Jan, 14:46, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > We most certainly have the capability; fortunately, the vast majority of > us > > also have the ethics to not pursue such action. > > > > {snicker} Yup and you can thank God for that. ;-) > > Just had to sneak that in!! > > Have a good weekend!! > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:09 AM, Pat <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > On 29 Jan, 08:06, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I’ll just claim that emotions do not exist due to lack of direct > > > > > (external) observation any more than experiences of the divine > exist. > > > > > > emotions are observable and testable, just find someone you don't > like > > > > and start pushing buttons. not only that but they can be artificially > > > > triggered in a lab. > > > > > Have they artificially induced an individual to feel sexual love > > > towards their own children, yet? Or is that unethical? Can they > > > induce an individual to no longer recognise themselves or to no longer > > > have thoughts? Or do we need to recall Dr. Mengele to work out some > > > finer points? ;-) > > > > > > On Jan 28, 9:18 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Just addressing one on the list Chris, if I were more of a skeptic, > > > > > I’d make a big fuss about how neither I nor anyone else has ever > seen > > > > > or touched an emotion. Yes, I’ve felt emotion(s) in a slightly > > > > > different meaning of the term ‘feel’.[internally] Yet, this is > > > > > subjective to the max. And, yes, there are physiological correlates > to > > > > > people’s subjective reporting on what they feel. And again, such > > > > > correlates are not the emotion itself. So, as a free thinking > skeptic, > > > > > And I don’t even consider any of this a mystery nor do I embrace > faith > > > > > or revelation. And, I do embrace the scientific method. > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 6:39 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > On each of those topics, no faith is required in an empirical > stance. > > > > > > Emotions exist, are measurable, have an underlying physiological > > > mechanism, > > > > > > which can be fine tuned or adjusted via externalities. Intuition > is > > > > > > subconscious analysis. We do it, it's observable, and as would be > > > expected, > > > > > > is certainly nothing like "ESP". Vitality, attention? I don't > > > understand > > > > > > their inclusion. By vitality, do you mean how energetic someone > is, > > > or how > > > > > > healthy? Why would that be a matter of faith? Same with > > > attention...how is > > > > > > focus a faith issue? Charm? Do you mean an accelerated > understanding > > > and > > > > > > capability within interpersonal ritualistic behaviour? Love is > easy > > > as > > > > > > well...assuming you're willing to define it first. > > > > > > > > Those who think that science doesn't cover all the tenets and > facets > > > of > > > > > > human behaviour, aren't viewing those things from a scientific > > > perspective, > > > > > > which makes sense...once you begin to analyze them from a > scientific > > > > > > perspective, they lose their mystery, and there is an appeal to > the > > > mystery, > > > > > > for those who need faith. > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:31 AM, ornamentalmind < > > > [email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > I wonder about “having faith in” things like: emotions, > intuition, > > > > > > > vitality, attention, charm etc. How does that work? Does one > > > require > > > > > > > having ‘empirical’ proof of such things? Note that I’ve left > ‘love’ > > > > > > > off of the list too. > > > > > > > > > On Jan 28, 5:57 am, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, Pat, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We > > > know. > > > > > > > > > > However, you're mistaking the empiricist stance, as so many > > > theists do. > > > > > > > > > > I will believe something when I am presented with empirical > > > evidence for > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > existence. Until such time, I do not expend belief. There is > no > > > empirical > > > > > > > > evidence for a soul, therefore I do not believe in such a > thing. > > > You have > > > > > > > > faith that souls are comprised of fields of energy. I do not. > You > > > have > > > > > > > faith > > > > > > > > that humans possess souls to begin with. I do not. This is > not a > > > faith > > > > > > > based > > > > > > > > stance; it's a faithless stance. I'm not sure why that > concept is > > > so > > > > > > > > difficult for those with faith to understand. Did you start > out > > > with > > > > > > > faith, > > > > > > > > and simply can't conceive of not believing in something not > > > implicitly > > > > > > > > proven? Neither Ian nor I have implicitly stated "There is no > > > soul, there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > no God". We simply note that lacking evidence for such, we > can't > > > have > > > > > > > faith > > > > > > > > in it. > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Pat < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On 28 Jan, 12:55, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 28 January 2010 12:30, Pat < > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, it boils down to the fact that you have faith that > > > there is no > > > > > > > > > > > 'soul'. Okey doke, I can accept that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Got a name for that straw man, Pat? :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't want to make a tyrant of logic here, but if > someone > > > claims > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > existence of non-material soul then evidence for that > claim > > > must be > > > > > > > > > > supplied. Russell, teapot, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ian > > > > > > > > > > > And I asked you on what basis you derived your belief that > ther > > > eis no > > > > > > > > > soul. It boiled down to your faith rather than any > evidence. > > > There > > > > > > > > > is no Russell's Teapot! Besides, my definition of a soul > is a > > > 'field > > > > > > > > > of energy' and if you refute fields of energy, well... > Yes, I > > > know > > > > > > > > > that particular one hasn't been empirically proven...yet, > but > > > that > > > > > > > > > does not mean that it does not exist; rather, it only means > it > > > hasn't > > > > > > > > > been discovered yet. If you recall, there was a time when > > > Uranus and > > > > > > > > > Neptune hadn't been discovered; did they only pop into > > > existence when > > > > > > > > > the telescope landed there? And the whole Russell's Teapot > > > thing is > > > > > > > > > so naff I'm surprised anyone falls for that logic. As I've > > > said > > > > > > > > > before many times, just because you have not detected > something > > > is not > > > > > > > > > evidence that it does not exist. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > > Google > > > > > > > Groups > > > > > > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > > > [email protected]. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > > > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > > > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.-Hidequotedtext- > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > > > Groups > > > > > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > > > > > To post to this group, send email to > [email protected]. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > For more options, visit this group at > > > > > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.-Hidequotedtext- > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > ""Minds Eye"" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > <minds-eye%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > > > . > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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