Another interesting view is the relation and reliance of the spirit on the world, yet also the world on it. I respect them both in how it is the being which sings the song and weaves the tale, and the tales and songs which stimulate that being to be, do, and sing.

The behaviorist seems to be interested in the songs and tales where the foundationist seems interested in the common song and tale. I think they are both important and the angles of inspection contributed between them serve to refine our understanding of the human being. Genetics, epigenetics, physiology, psychology, sociology, anthropology are a broad range of inspections and the common denominator seems to say, "the human being in every dimension of its existence is on a journey."

That is not to say we can't gain an academic advantage in taking one viewpoint or the other, that can be a very timesaving feature, especially when dealing with rudimentary/underdeveloped tools. This process of exo/endo-focal inspection seems the best way to explore and identify the potential landscape and absorb it into the marketplace. On the question of fitness I am leaning more toward purpose or function, it depends on the challenge or adversary. All these interesting fields each contribute useful knowledge, the challenge is tying it all together. I think it requires we be a curious Traveler, a Roman, and a Martian in a sense.

I feel long-winded today...
-Ash

On 2/14/2010 9:43 AM, Molly wrote:
I think that your idea of our "tooling" gets to the heart of the
difference between Chompsky's definition of human nature (he believes
we have this tooling) and Foucoult's (he believes we do not)  I think
we do have innate qualities of human nature, although I haven't
thought out what they could be.  Your point, Ash, about our need to be
ourselves along, and together in family/community is a good one. As
Francis pointed out in another thread, this is the biblical Mary/
Martha paradox - and I think we live this naturally and simultaneously
- in biblical terms, our ability to be in spirit, and also do our work
in the world.

On Feb 14, 12:44 am, Ash<[email protected]>  wrote:
Of all the creatures I've beheld none are so vile, beautiful, tormented,
ignorant, wise, enlightened, enslaved and emancipated as the one called
'man'. Perhaps the being most likely to do /anything/?

I think it is human nature to be independent and social, we have tooling
suited to the task and are driven toward those ends. Our independent
existential suffering is alleviated and subdued by interaction with
other human beings and participation in social communities.

This page was rather informative and interesting 
too:http://www.onelife.com/evolve/manev.html

Heh, my fiancee tells me that my brow ridge was bred out long ago. :p

Just a few bits I found interesting from the discussion in your link.

"this Martian would, if he were rational, conclude that the structure of
the knowledge that is acquired in the case of language is basically
internal to the human mind; whereas the structure of physics is not, in
so direct a way, internal to the human mind. Our minds are not
constructed so that when we look at the phenomena of the world
theoretical physics comes forth, and we write it down and produce it"
-CHOMSKY

"If we really want to develop a theory of scientific creation, or for
that matter artistic creation, I think we have to focus attention
precisely on that set of conditions that, on the one hand, delimits and
restricts the scope of our possible knowledge, while at the same time
permitting the inductive leap to complicated systems of knowledge on the
basis of a small amount of data. That, it seems to me, would be the way
to progress towards a theory of scientific creativity, or in fact
towards any question of epistemology." -CHOMSKY

"it is important to stress-and this has to do with your point about
limitation and freedom-that were it not for these limitations, we would
not have the creative act of going from a little bit of knowledge, a
little bit of experience, to a rich and highly articulated and
complicated array of knowledge. Because if anything could be possible,
then nothing would be possible." -CHOMSKY

"On the other hand, one of the tasks that seems immediate and urgent to
me, over and above anything else, is this: that we should indicate and
show up, even where they are hidden, all the relationships of political
power which actually control the social body and oppress or repress it."
-FOUCOULT

"  It seems to me that the real political task in a society such as ours
is to criticise the workings of institutions, which appear to be both
neutral and independent; to criticise and attack them in such a manner
that the political violence which has always exercised itself obscurely
through them will be unmasked, so that one can fight against them.
...its true solidity is perhaps where one doesn't expect it. ...this
domination is not simply the expression in political terms of economic
exploitation, it is its instrument and ... the condition which makes it
possible ... if one fails to recognise these points of support of class
power, one risks allowing them to continue to exist; and to see this
class power reconstitute itself even after an apparent revolutionary
process." -FOUCOULT

On 2/13/2010 1:37 PM, Molly wrote:



"All studies of man, from history to linguistics and psychology, are
faced with the question of whether, in the last instance, we are the
product of all kinds of external factors, or if, in spite of our
differences, we have something we could call a common human nature, by
which we can recognise each other as human beings."

What is human nature?

http://www.chomsky.info/debates/1971xxxx.htm


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