On 24 May, 17:53, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > As much as I appreciate clarity, as Pat well knows, much of import > that is transmitted from generation to generation, from person to > person, is esoteric in nature. Texts alone can never do this due to > their very nature. >
Thus the concept of a guru. But, what if God is one's guru, i.e., Guru is my guru, if you see what I mean? > On May 24, 9:35 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I suppose with any faith, we can site followers who can live in love > > and peace after coming to the scripture, and those that cannot. > > Reading the scripture and living the scripture are two different > > things. Islam is no exception. This does not mean the scripture is > > flawed, although that seems to be argued ad naseum, but rather goes > > back to the conversation of mistakes and forgiveness. > > > On May 24, 12:11 pm, vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > And that is, I repeat, the only hallmark of a true messiah ... when > > > his word leads people to being good, gentle and loving. The Jewish > > > temple means little, and the number of adherents is really irrelevant, > > > when the merit of thought and speech is to be considered. > > > > We've discussed Quran forthrightly with the participation of a Muslim > > > member a couple of years ago, with all its interpretive flaws and > > > consequent crap temporals, that has resulted in such behaviour among > > > its adherents as we witness today. Such certainties as it mouths is of > > > no merit in itself, if it does lead people to being good, gentle and > > > loving. > > > > I'd much prefer the less certain, if it results otherwise ! > > > > On May 24, 7:44 pm, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I see your point, although all of the people that I know that consider > > > > themselves of the Baha'i faith are good, gentle, loving people. To > > > > that end, I would say he was successful. > > > > > On May 24, 9:55 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 24 May, 14:21, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I have not read this, and lots of other stuff. My reading has > > > > > > become > > > > > > quite narrow in scope, but that may change again in my life. I now > > > > > > read what comes to me that has a ring of truth to me, and it always > > > > > > validates my latest realizations. Quite a wonderful process, > > > > > > really. > > > > > > I would some day like to get back to literature...so much of it is > > > > > > beautiful. So little time, so much to read...that is, if you > > > > > > include > > > > > > time in your reality... > > > > > > Well, it's not so much as to whether or not I include it, it's whether > > > > > or not it is actually included. It is. Otherwise, you could read > > > > > this before I wrote it. Only the One that has access to all time at > > > > > once can do that. And, thus, knew, millenia ago, that this little > > > > > post was a vital part of the whole. I wouldn't bother reading "The > > > > > Book of Certitude". It was/is, more or less, an attempt from a person > > > > > raised within Shi'a Islam, to make the claim of being the return of > > > > > the Hidden (12th) Imam in a very subtle way, i.e., do everything but > > > > > actually state it. Unfortunately, the book, when contrasted to the > > > > > clarity of The Qur'an, is a mishmash of ideas that are NOT internally > > > > > consistent and, thus, do not add clarity or certitude but, rather, > > > > > detract from the Qur'an that it was intending to comment upon. It's > > > > > an attempt to sway both Christians and Muslims into accepting the > > > > > author's 'way forward', wich, although admirable, the way outlined is > > > > > too muddled to see, in my opinion. In short, it was another attempt > > > > > to be 'the Gospel of the Next Messiah' written before said Messiah > > > > > claimed the title. Whilst there ARE followers, the majority of the > > > > > population of the planet have never heard of Baha'i or Baha'ullah. > > > > > Therefore, I don't think he was a very successful Messiah. He > > > > > certainly never rebuilt any Jewish temple nor intended to; what sort > > > > > of Messiah is THAT? ;-) > > > > > > > On May 24, 7:22 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 23 May, 20:03, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > perhaps with a focus like the B'hai, that brings the individual > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > becoming rather than possessing as the basis of the social > > > > > > > > contract, > > > > > > > > it may some day come about. > > > > > > > > Perhaps, but have you read their "Book of Certitude"? I have, and > > > > > > > there is more uncertainty in it than any other 'scripture' I've > > > > > > > read. > > > > > > > I'm sure, like most people, they mean well, but the faith itself > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > ill-founded although well-intentioned. And the Book of Certitude > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > confounding. I find it difficult to believe that anyone would > > > > > > > accept > > > > > > > it AS a scirpture; but then, hey, it's better than David > > > > > > > Koresh...of > > > > > > > THAT, I'm sure. > > > > > > > > > On May 23, 1:59 pm, DarkwaterBlight <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Quite a tall order OneCell, I think that is pointing in the > > > > > > > > > right > > > > > > > > > direction but I highly doubt that the powers can/will be able > > > > > > > > > to agree > > > > > > > > > on much other than we need to save the planet in order to save > > > > > > > > > ourselves!LOL!Surely this statement reflects self intrest as > > > > > > > > > well! > > > > > > > > > > On May 22, 11:34 am, 1CellOfMany <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > In response to your question,archytas, here is a direct > > > > > > > > > > quote from the > > > > > > > > > > article: > > > > > > > > > > "Ultimately, the transformation required to shift towards > > > > > > > > > > sustainable > > > > > > > > > > consumption and production will entail no less than an > > > > > > > > > > organic change > > > > > > > > > > in the structure of society itself so as to reflect fully > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > interdependence of the entire social body—as well as the > > > > > > > > > > interconnectedness with the natural world that sustains it. > > > > > > > > > > Among > > > > > > > > > > these changes, many of which are already the focus of > > > > > > > > > > considerable > > > > > > > > > > public discourse, are: the consciousness of world > > > > > > > > > > citizenship; the > > > > > > > > > > eventual federation of all nations through an integrated > > > > > > > > > > system of > > > > > > > > > > governance with capacity for global decision-making; the > > > > > > > > > > establishment > > > > > > > > > > of structures which recognize humanity’s common ownership > > > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > > earth’s resources; the establishment of full equality > > > > > > > > > > between men and > > > > > > > > > > women; the elimination of all forms of prejudice; the > > > > > > > > > > establishment of > > > > > > > > > > a universal currency and other integrating mechanisms that > > > > > > > > > > promote > > > > > > > > > > global economic justice; the adoption of an international > > > > > > > > > > auxiliary > > > > > > > > > > language to facilitate mutual understanding; and the > > > > > > > > > > redirection of > > > > > > > > > > massive military expenditures towards constructive social > > > > > > > > > > ends[iv]." > > > > > > > > > > > On May 21, 9:19 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority seem scared of anything like this Onecell. > > > > > > > > > > > Peoples like > > > > > > > > > > > the Amish still live under wider protection, and the > > > > > > > > > > > B'hai are > > > > > > > > > > > persecuted in Iran. How do we protect our sustainable > > > > > > > > > > > communities > > > > > > > > > > > from bandits and mad, violent religionists? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 21 May, 21:48, 1CellOfMany <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a different perspective on Prosperity. The > > > > > > > > > > > > article below was > > > > > > > > > > > > copied from the Baha'i News > > > > > > > > > > > > Service:http://news.bahai.org/story/770 > > > > > > > > > > > > > A new statement challenging the common assumption that > > > > > > > > > > > > human beings > > > > > > > > > > > > are slaves to self-interest and consumerism has been > > > > > > > > > > > > issued by the > > > > > > > > > > > > Baha'i International Community. > > > > > > > > > > > > > A more profound look at human nature would reveal the > > > > > > > > > > > > ability to > > > > > > > > > > > > respond to a higher calling, suggests the document – > > > > > > > > > > > > issued this week > > > > > > > > > > > > for the United Nations Commission on Sustainable > > > > > > > > > > > > Development as it > > > > > > > > > > > > began its annual two-week session. > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The culture of consumerism ... has tended to reduce > > > > > > > > > > > > human beings to > > > > > > > > > > > > competitive, insatiable consumers of goods and to > > > > > > > > > > > > objects of > > > > > > > > > > > > manipulation by the market," it says. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In fact, "the human experience is essentially spiritual > > > > > > > > > > > > in nature: it > > > > > > > > > > > > is rooted in the inner reality – or what some call the > > > > > > > > > > > > 'soul' – that > > > > > > > > > > > > we all share in common," it states. > > > > > > > > > > > > > The document, titled "Rethinking Prosperity: Forging > > > > > > > > > > > > Alternatives to a > > > > > > > > > > > > Culture of Consumerism," challenges the view that there > > > > > > > > > > > > is an > > > > > > > > > > > > intractable conflict between what people want – which > > > > > > > > > > > > supposedly is to > > > > > > > > > > > > consume more – and what humanity needs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Much of economic and psychological theory depicts > > > > > > > > > > > > human beings as > > > > > > > > > > > > slaves to self-interest," it says. "The faculties > > > > > > > > > > > > needed to construct > > > > > > > > > > > > a more just and sustainable social order – moderation, > > > > > > > > > > > > justice, love, > > > > > > > > > > > > reason, sacrifice and service to the common good – have > > > > > > > > > > > > too often been > > > > > > > > > > > > dismissed as naive ideals. Yet, it is these and related > > > > > > > > > > > > qualities that > > > > > > > > > > > > must be harnessed. ..." > > > > > > > > > > > > > Peter Adriance, a member of the Baha'i International > > > > > > > > > > > > Community's > > > > > > > > > > > > delegation to the Commission, said the statement is a > > > > > > > > > > > > contribution to > > > > > > > > > > > > a dialogue on the development of a 10-year framework to > > > > > > > > > > > > encourage new > > > > > > > > > > > > programs that advance sustainable consumption and > > > > > > > > > > > > production. > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The document deals with the issue of consumerism by > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
