Granted. What this has to do with our current prison system though I don't know.
History is history, Victoria died a long time ago, we no longer have an empire. All of this is good, change although not always good IS inevitable, and so I can't see why we persist in sticking to an outdated prison system when it is clear that the majority of people in this scepterd isle of ours want it to change. By the by, Rigs I'm unsure as to the tone of your post here and what it implies? You know me mate, no patriot I, which means I also feel no shame for the things done by my fellow country man or woman, indeed why would I, I wasn't born then, these people are nowt to do with me. Nope pride in my own doings and the coresponding shame, but to feel the same for the actions of others, well that does not make sense to me. On Aug 18, 1:50 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh yes- stoggy Victoria- Empress of India, etc. Great Scot, man- ask > the Irish, etc. their experience with the British Empire. Or come over > here and ask the Native Americans that were nearly exterminated. > > On Aug 18, 7:28 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Naaaa prisons in this country are still oppeating under the Victorian > > principle of rehabilitation. I think the majority of us would rather > > see them setup as pure punishment for crimes commited, I am one of > > these. > > > I for one do not feel smugness, but I do think wrong doing should be > > punished. I mean we punish our children, why not then punish our > > adults? > > > Yes debt. But the thing with this debt is it has been with us for a > > looong time now, why the sudden rush to pay it back? Given the global > > fiscal situation I would rather see some loving feelings going on by > > those who we owe. Take down the intrest rate, give us longer or > > perhaps similar to the drive a while back for Africa, scrap the dept, > > yeah! > > > Greed, man it is the ruining of this world. How much does one person > > need? > > > On Aug 18, 12:59 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > What are prisons but holding pens so society feels smug about its > > > culture? > > > > There are probably enough hospitals and schools- what's missing is > > > methods, cost controls, etc. > > > > Britain and the USA are broke/in debt. China is over-extended. Etc. > > > > The best way out of debt is not to spend money you don't have and pay > > > off debts as soon as possible. > > > > On Aug 18, 6:37 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > It does seem ludicrus to me that with an ever expanding population > > > > that next to nowt has been done to expand our infrastructure. We need > > > > to be building more prisions, more hospitals, more shcools, more > > > > social houseing. I mean that is common sense innit? > > > > > It also occours to me that amongst the very best ways out of recision > > > > is building. > > > > > On Aug 18, 12:31 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > You will also wind up paying higher taxes for those that are sent to > > > > > prison according to a lawyer on BBC radio last night. I think he said > > > > > prisons are already burdened with 86,000 souls (but the USA beats that > > > > > figure by miles). It sounds like the courts are swamped and handing > > > > > down stiff sentences so the country can repair its moral core/civil > > > > > behavior. Besides, the Olympics are coming up and after all that money > > > > > is invested, one would not want to frighten away the tourists- like > > > > > they have in the Middle East. > > > > > > On Aug 17, 7:34 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Don't worry, archy. You will be paying higher insurance premiums to > > > > > > cover the losses anyway. Trickle down justice. > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 7:18 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I think Orn is right. Rationalists are often impossible > > > > > > > fantasists > > > > > > > leading highly disturbed lives. But if emotions are an ever > > > > > > > present > > > > > > > as I'd agree, one can deny them to some degree if you can catch > > > > > > > yourself (and as importantly others) in them when moral judgement > > > > > > > runs > > > > > > > afoot. > > > > > > > That we are brainless in this area as a general population is > > > > > > > obvious > > > > > > > from reaction to the UK 'riots' and demands for heavy punishments > > > > > > > (our > > > > > > > courts are berserk at the moment) for these people but can't even > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > that we are being looted by the rich and are not even > > > > > > > investigating > > > > > > > them. > > > > > > > I'm an advocate of modern National Service that would involve > > > > > > > disciplined work but not necessarily armed service - but we can't > > > > > > > pay > > > > > > > for it because the rich have looted the money and have > > > > > > > disproportionate influence on government through their rotten > > > > > > > accumulations. > > > > > > > We should be some time to such reactions before deciding, but if > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > gives power such time it usually steal the moment and the > > > > > > > decision for > > > > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > On Aug 17, 11:45 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Ohh Rigys, i don't doubt for a second that thoese effecthave > > > > > > > > every > > > > > > > > right to be angry, I question wether or not morality is best > > > > > > > > served > > > > > > > > with any emotional attachment. I have used anger as an > > > > > > > > example, but > > > > > > > > really I mean all emotions. > > > > > > > > > A freind of mine posted on facebook something along the lines > > > > > > > > of bring > > > > > > > > back national servic, as a punishment for the looters. This was > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > in anger and when it comes down to it, is it a good idea to > > > > > > > > teach > > > > > > > > thugs how to kill? > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 11:45 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > There must be laws on the books to cover riots, looting, > > > > > > > > > damage to > > > > > > > > > property. This isn't the first era of a poor economy for > > > > > > > > > Britain. Has > > > > > > > > > networking changed the formulas? > > > > > > > > > > Another factor is immigration and clash of cultures and > > > > > > > > > religions. > > > > > > > > > What if once cheap labor is no longer needed? It seems to me- > > > > > > > > > though I > > > > > > > > > may be wrong- that immigrants rarely return to their original > > > > > > > > > homeland > > > > > > > > > and bring their new skills and education forward in third > > > > > > > > > world > > > > > > > > > countries. And social programs may quash desires to roll up > > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > > sleeves once again in their homeland. > > > > > > > > > > I learned this weekend from a discussion that one cannot fire > > > > > > > > > upon a > > > > > > > > > thief- it's only permitted when one's life is in jeopardy. > > > > > > > > > That seems > > > > > > > > > a thin line- wait till the bloke attempts to kill you! Our > > > > > > > > > laws have > > > > > > > > > probably changed a great deal- I doubt cattle rustlers were > > > > > > > > > treated so > > > > > > > > > mercifully. > > > > > > > > > > As to anger, I think shop owners and home dwellers and > > > > > > > > > townsmen had/ > > > > > > > > > have every right to be blistering mad at the looters and > > > > > > > > > rioters. > > > > > > > > > > I made a long list of non-lethal protective measures. > > > > > > > > > Baseball bats > > > > > > > > > were not on the list as they can crack a skull and kill > > > > > > > > > someone. > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 16, 6:09 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Paradox, yes agreat frind of mine tells me the same sorta > > > > > > > > > > thing, that > > > > > > > > > > morality without emotion is somehow lacking. It is partly > > > > > > > > > > due to his > > > > > > > > > > words and my respect for him that I have started this > > > > > > > > > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > > However as Rigsy points out to evict a looter from his > > > > > > > > > > council home > > > > > > > > > > for his looting does not adress any problems, nor does it > > > > > > > > > > serve as > > > > > > > > > > adiquate punishment, and would I think only make things > > > > > > > > > > worse. > > > > > > > > > > > This course of actions is a fine example of > > > > > > > > > > thinking/talking about > > > > > > > > > > morality whilst angry, and is to my mind no good at all. > > > > > > > > > > > I maintian that morality is best sreved without emotions > > > > > > > > > > attached, can > > > > > > > > > > you show my why I am wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 14, 5:31 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Deep question, Lee; not an easy one. One who suffers > > > > > > > > > > > injury must have > > > > > > > > > > > the right of redress, be that restitution or retribution, > > > > > > > > > > > or else we > > > > > > > > > > > live in Hobbes's state of nature. The question of balance > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > proportionality is the proper remit of the law courts and > > > > > > > > > > > great minds. > > > > > > > > > > > Where the injury in question falls outside the purview of > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > collective good or the legal framework to that end, > > > > > > > > > > > morality and > > > > > > > > > > > values must act to constrain the individual in respect of > > > > > > > > > > > balance and > > > > > > > > > > > proportionality; that is why it's so very vital that we > > > > > > > > > > > understand > > > > > > > > > > > what we do when we tinker with the foundations and > > > > > > > > > > > structures of a > > > > > > > > > > > society's moral compass. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, i've always felt that emotions are the fuel > > > > > > > > > > > for the > > > > > > > > > > > directed mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Aug 12, 1:28 pm, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > So as we should all know we have had quite a week of it > > > > > > > > > > > > here in the > > > > > > > > > > > > UK. Facebook and many other web places have been > > > > > > > > > > > > inundated with all > > > > > > > > > > > > sorts of sillyness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Calls to bring back national service, calls to evict > > > > > > > > > > > > those found > > > > > > > > > > > > guilty of the rioting and looting, calls to stop their > > > > > > > > > > > > benifits. I > > > > > > > > > > > > have witnessed some of my good good friends spew out > > > > > > > > > > > > all mannor of > > > > > > > > > > > > sillyness in their anger. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have procliamed in the past that all questions of > > > > > > > > > > > > morality are > > > > > > > > > > > > better served sans emotions and I see much this week > > > > > > > > > > > > that has only > > > > > > > > > > > > firmed this view. > > > > > > > > > > > > > In order to discover though the validity of this > > > > > > > > > > > > thought tell me do > > > > > > > > > > > > you agree, or not and why? People of ME sway my > > > > > > > > > > > > opinion with your > > > > > > > > > > > > wise words. > > > > > > > > > > > > > What good can come of deciding upon a course of action > > > > > > > > > > > > whilst holding > > > > > > > > > > > > onto your anger? > > > > > > > > > > > > > I ask of course as a self confessed recovered angry > > > > > > > > > > > > man.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -... > > read more »
