Your description of a simple point is in fact that of a dotted line, your education would have allowed you to come up with this conclusion also.
On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > I feel education is of great importance as it is the foundation for growth > as humanity. The truth comes to the simple point either you are growing or > you are dying. There is no standing still. > > As I look at civilization I see a society that is in reality is stagnant, > control by an extreme minority who are terrified of losing control. The > result is extreme poverty world wide. > Allan > On Sep 4, 2011 1:21 PM, "Vam" <[email protected]> wrote: > > We need pragmatists and status quoists but can't depend on them for > > our future. > > > > For that, we must nurture creatives, rebels and blasphemes. Precisely > > what the social, political, judicial and business institutions are > > structured and pre-programmed to progressively discourage, oppose, > > reluctantly allow, absolutely oppose, and disallow. The majority of > > the rest of the population follows in " their " image and conforms ! > > > > Don't get me wrong. Isn't that how it should be ? After all, we can't > > encourage, much less allow, monumental change everyday. Can we ? > > > > On Sep 4, 1:51 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > >> That seems so true. It is scary,, the God came out of a coffershop > >> conversation. Only it w called a 'Bartonian' named after my father. > >> > >> It seem academics can only follow it teachings. You see the same thing > to > >> the extreme in the churches, there they spend their time proving their > point > >> by quoting their religious documents. Little to creativity or original > >> thought. > >> Allan > >> On Sep 4, 2011 12:53 AM, "archytas" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Icame across some recent research that says much I used to teach. > >> > I'll paraphrase rather than linking to it. It fits with what Bill > >> > says on politics, though the focus is 'creativity' > >> > ScienceDaily (Sep. 3, 2011) — Most people view creativity as an asset > >> > -- until they come across a creative idea. That's because creativity > >> > not only reveals new perspectives; it promotes a sense of > >> > uncertainty. The next time your great idea at work elicits silence or > >> > eye rolls, you might just pity those co-workers. Fresh research > >> > indicates they don't even know what a creative idea looks like and > >> > that creativity, hailed as a positive change agent, actually makes > >> > people squirm. > >> > "How is it that people say they want creativity but in reality often > >> > reject it?" said Jack Goncalo, ILR School assistant professor of > >> > organizational behavior and co-author of research to be published in > >> > an upcoming issue of the journal Psychological Science. The paper > >> > reports on two 2010 experiments at the University of Pennsylvania > >> > involving more than 200 people. > >> > The studies' findings include: > >> > Creative ideas are by definition novel, and novelty can trigger > >> > feelings of uncertainty that make most people uncomfortable. > >> > People dismiss creative ideas in favor of ideas that are purely > >> > practical -- tried and true. > >> > Objective evidence shoring up the validity of a creative proposal does > >> > not motivate people to accept it. > >> > Anti-creativity bias is so subtle that people are unaware of it, which > >> > can interfere with their ability to recognize a creative idea. > >> > For example, subjects had a negative reaction to a running shoe > >> > equipped with nanotechnology that adjusted fabric thickness to cool > >> > the foot and reduce blisters. > >> > To uncover bias against creativity, the researchers used a subtle > >> > technique to measure unconscious bias -- the kind to which people may > >> > not want to admit, such as racism. Results revealed that while people > >> > explicitly claimed to desire creative ideas, they actually associated > >> > creative ideas with negative words such as "vomit," "poison" and > >> > "agony." > >> > Goncalo said this bias caused subjects to reject ideas for new > >> > products that were novel and high quality. > >> > "Our findings imply a deep irony," wrote the authors, who also include > >> > Jennifer Mueller of the University of Pennsylvania and Shimul Melwani > >> > of the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. "Revealing the > >> > existence and nature of a bias against creativity can help explain why > >> > people might reject creative ideas and stifle scientific advancements, > >> > even in the face of strong intentions to the contrary." > >> > Uncertainty drives the search for and generation of creative ideas, > >> > but "uncertainty also makes us less able to recognize creativity, > >> > perhaps when we need it most," the researchers wrote. "Revealing the > >> > existence and nature of a bias against creativity can help explain why > >> > people might reject creative ideas and stifle scientific advancements, > >> > even in the face of strong intentions to the contrary. ... The field > >> > of creativity may need to shift its current focus from identifying how > >> > to generate more creative ideas to identify how to help innovative > >> > institutions recognize and accept creativity." > >> > >> > Actually, I ended up cutting and pasting - this summary stands for > >> > itself. Academics, as a rule, wouldn't experience creativity if it > >> > was a fish that walked across the room and slapped them in the face > >> > and most can't accept that many ordinary people can do it and they > >> > can't. I don't want to produce anything for the market either rigsy > >> > (I really used to see that 'b' in your name - something reinforced by > >> > finding your wit a bit like the character in the sit-com). And I'm > >> > aware of the trance Orn and think a lot of the glitz rigsy mentioned > >> > is needed by those in it as a kind of opium. > >> > >> > I never did the kind of research above, but this stuff matches the > >> > broad tenets of my creativity classes and what I tried to do in > >> > company change. The kids I've know (including me as one) hate > >> > situations in which they discover something they didn't know. We are > >> > kept in a perpetual 'child hood' though I have no objection to any > >> > solace found in literature. > >> > >> > On Sep 3, 1:21 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Besides sharing different stories of political analysis with friends, > >> >> I continue to drive home the truth that as long as people in the USA > >> >> stay in the trance of believing that voting for someone not in the > two > >> >> main parties is ‘throwing away a vote’ (a notion most likely > >> >>I came across promulgated by these two parties) there will be little > to no > >> >> responsiveness to what ‘we the people’ want…something that is > >> >> obviously ignored these days. When a politician actually might have > to > >> >> be responsive and yes, even be congruent in word and deed, only then > >> >> can our form of representative democracy have any impact on how those > >> >> selected to lead will not only act but actually be chosen rather than > >> >> remaining in the terror that one might vote for someone who stands > the > >> >> chance of not winning! > >> > >> >> To me, throwing away a vote is voting for the status quo. > >> > >> >> Sadly, the trance state remains in full force today. > >> > >> >> On Sep 3, 4:27 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> >> > I am trying to think about how we could improve the minds/choices > of > >> >> > voters but get stumped. Part of the problem is that classical > >> >> > educations do not always translate into common sense in real life- > one > >> >> > still must scrub the floors in those ivory towers. But I think most > >> >> > attend college/grad studies with a work goal in mind these days. I > >> >> > remember shop classes and vocational schools in public highschools > but > >> >> > perhaps that would invite a lawsuit by the ACLU these days- who > knows? > >> >> > And manufacturing/labor needs have changed drastically in our day > due > >> >> > to automation, robots and technology as well as every aspect of > modern > >> >> > life from home to office. So there is this vacuume. On the other > hand, > >> >> > I find great solace in my books and interests but since I refuse to > >> >> > produce anything for the market, I guess I am worthless. :-) Oh- > and I > >> >> > decided to quit going to funerals altogether save my own. > >> > >> >> > The military is another consideration as a form of "education" and > >> >> > employment. > >> > >> >> > I came across your screen name in my old class notes- just a line > or > >> >> > two re Plato and his visit. > >> > >> >> > Another problem with setting up a culture/form of government is > that > >> >> > you still are left with human nature! > >> > >> >> > On Sep 2, 10:14 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> >> > > I'm no expert on the Greeks to be sure. I remember that women > got to > >> >> > > leave home when they were about 60 to go to funerals! I > understand > >> >> > > the 'men of their time' arguments - and we tend to forget Greece > is > >> >> > > really middle eastern - but I have real problems with the 'high' > >> >> > > philosophy and no grasp of the wrongs on the treatment of > slavery, > >> >> > > indenture and women. It hardly suggests much of a route to a > >> >> > > materially enlightened society. The Italian aristocracy was > almost > >> >> > > exclusively homosexual in the 17th century and much of the Middle > >> East > >> >> > > remains 'homosocial'. In scientific argument and practice we > often > >> >> > > work hard at excluding wads of common sense and religious muck > under > >> >> > > pretense of objectivity, yet we are really trying to include all > >> >> > > options that aren't ludicrous (and we entertain these too to some > >> >> > > extent). I find human thinking that ends up with notions that a > sex > >> >> > > or race is 'unequal' or unmeriting not wrong but intolerable, but > >> this > >> >> > > doesn't lead me to believe we can't have abortion or not give > deaf > >> >> > > people hearing if we can (and so on) - the intolerable remains a > >> >> > > heuristic open to situational particularism. Equality doesn;t > mean I > >> >> > > won't lift the heavy box, think sport should be unisex, regard > men as > >> >> > > potential sexual partners and so on - but it does mean I don't > >> approve > >> >> > > of daft notions of banning girls from playing soccer because they > >> >> > > can't share the changing rooms. And it does mean I tend to > despise > >> >> > > argument that excludes what should matter in the pretense of > >> >> > > objectivity. Our people who can't do much academic are not > >> sub-human, > >> >> > > but I suspect much intellectualism is - including daft economists > >> >> > > suggesting inter-generational mortgages, or that we have to have > a > >> >> > > super-rich for the benefit of all. I am not led to conclusion > much > >> >> > > and think this is a result of perverse schooling and a fixation > with > >> >> > > 'strong leadership'. My guess is we need moral assertion on the > >> basis > >> >> > > of likely outcomes on social issues and that we are ignoring an > >> >> > > interesting history of this at our peril, including the > distraction > >> >> > > from actual change that wordy words becomes when we lack courage. > >> The > >> >> > > key in this is probably deep in a form of mentality that can't > work > >> >> > > out the metaphor of fiddling while Rome burns or banksterism as a > >> >> > > criminally organised road to serfdom. Socrates called the > unexamined > >> >> > > life pointless and its easy to agree faced with yet another class > of > >> >> > > students who don't read, populations who vote 'on the economy > stupid' > >> >> > > knowing nothing of economics - yet he was wrong. What we have > failed > >> >> > > to do is provide the technology of it that people can use. > >> > >> >> > > On Sep 2, 1:05 am, rigsy03 > >> > >> ... > >> > >> read more » >
