It seems the term "for the greater good ." disappeared from the language
especially from government.
Allan

On Fri, Oct 21, 2011 at 2:32 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm stuck at another level too Chris - it was always little old
> 'critical me' that got funding and such.  When going to such things as
> university creativity sessions and find them led by some clown with 50
> bright ideas to get the business going what do you do other than toss
> the book '!01 Bright Ideas To Get Your Business Going' on the desk and
> leave?  I found universities not to be centres of excellence but full
> of dullards or clown rules that prevented real work.  I sometimes find
> a few people to work with, have heard the 'Molly experience' and never
> seen it do anything but damage - though Molly has an edge I could see
> getting through.
> With sports teams and some students you have to stop the pre-selection
> of defeat - but you also have to spot where the brick walls not to run
> at are.
> I had a fantastic chance about 15 years back with a firm that wanted
> to abolish its organisational structure in favour of project teams,
> and go paperless.  The top level was a great success and the paperless
> thing worked better than I hoped.  There were load of positive payoffs
> - but huge resentment in the groups doing routine and scut work.  All
> in all though it was a buzz but a lot of people got left behind. I
> have no problem with this kind of efficiency move - but there should
> be more consideration of how to work with those who can't cope other
> than junking to the reserve army of unemployment.  Without going into
> detail, this is why I think we need social solutions not individual
> ones.  And I think the social is too broken to start with letting fear
> fall away.
>
>
> On Oct 20, 10:57 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "I guess that fear is the load we are experiencing"
> >
> > My world changed immeasurably when the fear fell away.
> >
> > On Oct 19, 1:25 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I can't take it myself to be honest Chris.  Derrida used to say we are
> > > in spirit positive. In Anglo-Saxon terms he was just a liberal, almost
> > > priestly as a bloke over a few beers. I was younger then, still able
> > > to knock things over and feel it was worth the bother.  I suspect we
> > > don't understand "negation" very well.  Gabby (bless) always has some
> > > - or it seems that way (I remember very positive support of me some
> > > years back) - and the question arising is when this becomes as much
> > > censorship as all the other stuff we might brand as that. It isn't
> > > "negation" or the sting of criticism that really gets to me, more
> > > selfish attitudes in what I feel as madness, triumphed as positive but
> > > perpetual children.  I like kids and even childish behaviour as
> > > entertainment.  I can't stand the failure of education in making a
> > > decent society of responsible adults.
> > > I've done a lot more than most in playing the game - £7 million in
> > > research/project grants doesn't come from admissions projects will
> > > fail in the business plan.  But the critical eye has to admit the
> > > majority fail and I was often signing-off on lies. £9K for university
> > > tutoring (outside of science and engineering) goes to fund middle-
> > > class lifestyles of the university hangers-on not towards the
> > > education of the young person.  When last full-time, I was teaching
> > > 100 FTEs at least (200 times £9K = £900K in fees leaving £810K after
> > > my costs).  I could have done a better job for the students with
> > > properly organised distance learning and a 'university' organised
> > > around local pubs, theartres and sports clubs done through social
> > > media - the overhead costed at around £100K (electronic library
> > > etc.).  A better education with much more opportunity for small
> > > business involvement and so on at under a third of the cost and one
> > > not building onerous debt.  What is negative in this?  And sadly, the
> > > answer is easy middle-class incomes.  I can go on an explain how even
> > > these would not be affected as we could expand more practical
> > > education and work development.  I'm talking here of a more social,
> > > more tutor supported education better than the expensive, debt-
> > > producing fantasy we're forcing kids into.  And one with lots of local
> > > creative possibilities with less bureaucracy and vastly increased
> > > 'civic' involvement.
> > > You have to 'deconstruct' to get to the above idea - and elsewhere in
> > > terms of stuff like agricultural and manufacturing productivity we
> > > have done this with little thought on the jobs lost by workers -
> > > indeed we've run roughshod over 'them'.  The point in the negation
> > > should be positive - about the use of efficiency for general well-
> > > being and the creation of wider prosperity, probably redefined.
> >
> > > What's hard, Chris, is facing-up to what life means to most people -
> > > the economics I've never taught (but colleagues have from a single
> > > text book) leads to a few very rich and the rest in debt-rent-mortgage
> > > peonage and the arms' race.  It must be obvious we barely have even
> > > capitalism.  It would be great to be able to ignore politics and the
> > > status quo, but we need to build so we can.  The old phrase from the
> > > 50's (I only know from reading) was 'structuring freedom'.  The human
> > > population has tripled since I was born (I reject personal, intimate
> > > responsibility!) - all very 'free' - producing planet burning and soon
> > > 'competition for air'.  Raising questions about how complex freedom
> > > is.
> >
> > > The weight on us - if we think for improved practice - is complexity
> > > that most use simple Idols on to make their sense. I played rugby and
> > > was a cop.  The whole Bradford Northern front row were less
> > > intimidating than the mad munter of some low-life I might nick with a
> > > bread knife. The rules and structure of the competition allow rugby -
> > > but what rules and structure would allow a decent society.  Not every
> > > claim can count in trying to do that do should, in principle be heard
> > > so we don't 'go total' like some Spanish Fascit (fair typo) stealing
> > > babies from their ideologically unsound mothers.
> >
> > > I guess that fear is the load we are experiencing - maybe like that of
> > > animals in hierarchies under all kinds of complex leader power - just
> > > look what cockroaches and bees do to members in their 'reaching
> > > consensus rules'.  Even the really positive is negative - we can now
> > > support human life without much effort - so why do we need poverty?
> > > That would destroy the motivation of the rest of us now, wouldn't it?
> > > The most obvious fact in the world is that most of what we claim we
> > > want as moral individuals needs a change in what society is and what
> > > people can aspire to as persons in it - otherwise we head to the usual
> > > human solution, war.
> >
> > > Maybe I should 'out Dilbert' Scott Adams, you do some illustrations
> > > and pics, and we should watch the fireworks from Bermuda? I like the
> > > shadows in Bermuda.
> >
> > > On Oct 19, 3:56 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > > I've never had someone so casually create a crushing despair in me,
> Neil.
> > > > Your writing has always affected me greatly, but the sense of general
> > > > futility that is often expressed weighs a ton. As someone who still
> holds
> > > > out hope for society's betterment, your words often feel like
> mountains on
> > > > my head.The sense of truth in them, I think, is what gives them so
> much
> > > > weight.
> >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 4:25 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > The smell of authority gets up my nose however disguised Gabby -
> we've
> > > > > just seen an example in rugby union with a Welsh player sent off
> for a
> > > > > decent tackle and then banned for three games to reinforce the
> > > > > referee's authority.  It all reeks of what people do given
> authority.
> > > > > Sport hardly matters, but the example is good.  I don't know what's
> > > > > happening in Detroit.  I do know that in Spain a ring of bastards
> > > > > (priests, nuns, doctors) removed 40,000 kids from their parents and
> > > > > adopted through mass baby trafficking beyond the Fascists.  I was
> > > > > tempted once to become an anarcho-existential organisational
> > > > > practitioner and break some windows from the inside, but somehow
> > > > > jargon remains with the same smell.
> > > > > Molly's got a point - the problem is that words so rarely match
> what
> > > > > happens.  The gadfly of irony loses its sting too,much as
> increasing
> > > > > lexicon (equafinality, artifactuality etc.) ... and paradigms of
> > > > > synergy fade in the dust of asset strippers.
> >
> > > > > So where are the solutions we might express?
> >
> > > > > On Oct 18, 8:15 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > Puh, this is the flowery version of "I am against dualism"
> (compare: All
> > > > > > power plays are based in these memes because they require
> opposition),
> > > > > which
> > > > > > is understandable if the writer gets payed by the line. Whereby
> the scent
> > > > > of
> > > > > > power being related to hierarchies is decently overtoned, now
> isn't that
> > > > > > lovely. No mod here has the power over the ban button, this is
> me here
> > > > > > trolling and spreading an unpleasant odor. Puh, could someone
> please
> > > > > > let in some fresh air?
> >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Molly <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > Power relations work only in a group with leadership who's
> view is
> > > > > > > based on power and the idea that "i" or "we" can have more or
> less
> > > > > > > than "you."  There are views that realize that every group
> operates
> > > > > > > holistically, and the flow of operation and pinnacle of
> achievement is
> > > > > > > not dependent on power but synergy.  A savvy leader knows the
> group
> > > > > > > members potentiality, talent, perceived limitation, resources
> etc.,
> > > > > > > and creates the conditions necessary for every and all to move
> beyond
> > > > > > > them as a whole.  It takes a big picture view of how each
> person
> > > > > > > operates and where the group fits in the community (whole).  A
> group
> > > > > > > with such leadership can become a change agent.  The leadership
> > > > > > > understands that power is a misnomer, as it is not power that
> fuels
> > > > > > > the group effort, but synergy.
> >
> > > > > > > Given, not all groups operate like this.  Not everyone has
> realized
> > > > > > > the fallacious nature of "power."  Fallacious because we
> indeed are
> > > > > > > operating as a whole on the more subtle levels.  Our view can
> distort
> > > > > > > what is really occurring, because it is often too narrow
> (egocentric -
> > > > > > > me against them- or ethnocentric - us against them.)  All
> power plays
> > > > > > > are based in these memes because they require opposition.
>  Leaders who
> > > > > > > allow the talent in the group to emerge and mentor, who can
> inspire
> > > > > > > group vision and keep the group focused to it, who recognized
> each
> > > > > > > individual contribution and potential and provide resources
> necessary
> > > > > > > for fulfillment are indeed rare.  But they are emerging
> whether by
> > > > > > > necessity of a higher calling.
> >
> > > > > > > I find it interesting that here in Detroit, Mayor Bing, who
> receives a
> > > > > > > whopping $.90 annual salary, has done more to allow the
> worldcentric
> > > > > > > leadership of the city to emerge than anyone in the history of
> the
> > > > > > > city.  His critics say that he has not made any tangible change
> > > > > > > although you don't have to look far to see that he has.  He
> operates
> > > > > > > at a much higher meme than our President, although I suspect
> that the
> > > > > > > conditions of the world might not be ready for any other than
> a power
> > > > > > > based person in the Presidency.
> >
> > > > > > > Power relations are...
> >
> > read more »




-- 
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|_D Allan

Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.

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