i wonder if this kind of "voting" on things can not be done electronically. Even if most people on the earth do not have internet connection at home, I think all communities can provide internet connection to the people from schools, or libraries. This could provide direct democracy to everyone. A kind of Just-In-Time democracy.
On Wednesday, January 16, 2013 12:51:02 AM UTC+1, archytas wrote: > > I'm a very woolly thinker - and part of the technology I want to see > would entail a bunch of us - say me, rigs, Gabs and James - being able > to decide on whether the public or private sector is 'better' (I > suspect we'd all say this depends on circumstances) without making the > question into some ideological contest - and then on to the world more > generally. I've no doubt we could all give examples and counter- > examples and suspect we'd find some consensus on not really being very > interested. What I really wonder is why such matters are contested > ideologically rather than being subject to transparent record. > > On Jan 15, 10:32 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > Didn't know you were a Papist rigs! Which changes about nothing - I > > was dragged up Proddy until I got Dad to write a note to school > > excusing me RE. I did my maths and English homework in the classes - > > still took the exams and came top twice - which rather suggests how > > useless classrooms can be. I think a great deal is recoverable from > > religion concerning practical democracy and the loss of decency and > > organic solidarity. > > I've been reading a lot of academic material on banking systems for > > some lectures, Most tell the story that what has been done since the > > crash have really done nothing - there's one athttp:// > papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2132152(pdf > > downloads if anyone is interested) - and reading it is typically > > bleak. I've stopped the reading, partly because I have enough, but > > more because I'm depressed by how powerless it makes me feel. Rosanne > > Barr seemed the best presidential candidate to me. We need to get > > back to farming, building and making the planet a sensible collective. > > > > We used to try to teach the logic underlying various discipline - > > typically through learning artificial languages that demonstrate > > ambiguity lies in even simple constructs in ordinary languages. > > Tarski was usually key. One can dream of a machine that would do this > > in real time as politicians speak - but only dream. One can end up in > > such stuff as Chu sets - sadly not as easy as Casey Jones. What I > > could see in near-term would be a database that worked in near real- > > time that immediately produced facts that made politician's statements > > as ambiguous as they really are factually and identified rhetorical > > tricks as they spoke. Academic work in this area like discourse > > analysis is painfully slow. > > > > Tony Blair was a good orator - but now he looks the paradigm case of > > 'how do you know this man is lying - because his lips are moving' > > along with Nixon. The current technology is some combination of > > oratory, rhetoric and infotainment - perhaps even combined with > > education as discipline. I would want a technology that was very > > different, more transparent and honest - and I would see machine > > thinking as part of it all - in some areas of science we are fairly > > sure the machines are smarter than us already. I can think up some > > kind of 'mind-repository' as science fiction - Hawking is saying > > biological intelligence may be at the end of its evolutionary span. > > The Frankenstein and totalitarian elements always raise their heads - > > of course. > > > > Gordon Brown - the idiot who sold our gold reserves - used to say 'we > > must be proud of our British heritage' - but such is never said in > > the spirit of analysis of the good and the disasters. I'm pretty sure > > machines and software could show all our politicians now contest in > > such actually meaningless drivel. Some of us believe this already. I > > wonder if technology exposing such would generate space for the real > > dialogue? > > > > On 15 Jan, 12:14, rigs <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It appears chimps are willing to share a banana fairly and we are > > > closely related- it's a start. (NPR or BBC) But also heard farmland > > > was selling for $10,000. an acre and discouraging young independent > > > farmers (which will lead to more agribusiness swallowing up the > > > land).//There is a very long history promoting power and wealth- as a > > > sign of worldly success and divine favor- not sure if there is any way > > > to abolish that notion- well illustrated by the top tiers of > > > socialists and communists- even religious groups.// To be a > > > conservative may mean you have something to conserve (from an old > > > deceased friend); conservatives reward themselves with their own > > > efforts while liberals reward everyone with other people's efforts > > > (thoughts while cooking-rigs). Politicians make endless promises to > > > the poor and middle class in order to secure their votes and stay in > > > office since they(politicians) become unfit for work in the real > > > world.//I think I wanted to be a good person rather than a rich person > > > but I was brainwashed by Catholicism...wasn't I?// > > > > > On Jan 14, 9:21 pm, James <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > There are a number of trade routes built into the rewards system > though, > > > > for example a simple formula might be: > > > > > > Cities favor growth of tax base and expansion, attraction of > prospective > > > > citizens and businesses might favor a financial institution over a > > > > private home builder, the contractor may get tax breaks through > tricks > > > > between the bank and taxing authorities to greatly increase profits > for > > > > everyone except the buyer. The financial institution rewards > contractors > > > > and gains from relationships with all three and everyone has their > hands > > > > in the others' pocket making gains from the buyer. The whole system > is > > > > in the rewards game and it is designed to favor those who can > leverage > > > > scale and the promise of a shared economic gain. > > > > > > My thinking is very in line with Andrew's on establishing a higher > > > > baseline, I think it would be a worthwhile investment in humanity. > But > > > > it doesn't sound probable as long as we are addicted to perpetual > growth > > > > schemes that rely on massive excess capacity and waste to prop up an > > > > increasingly top heavy infrastructure. > > > > > > Someone once said that an empty stomach doesn't make the best > advisor > > > > for the future (or similarly rather). I think that cuts right to > Neil's > > > > second brain (the enteric nervous system) that drives an an organism > > > > with primal survival motives, and that is the manipulation in play, > I > > > > cannot imagine the promise of democracy seeing the light of day > while > > > > higher cognitive functions such as navigating complex > multidimensional > > > > environments (societies/states) to solve complex sociological > challenges > > > > (lest we believe this is just about money, or at all?!) toward > mutually > > > > beneficial outcomes. Unless I was blinded by the pie in the sky I > had > > > > something along the lines of a just, healthy and productive society > in > > > > mind when first learning about democracy. > > > > > > What I see is a large part of people's lives driven by fear, that > primal > > > > second brain. I think it should piss us off that we could be far > more > > > > productive if someone cared to put the infrastructure in place for > our > > > > outputs to be recycled back into society to a larger and more > integral > > > > extent, from lack of imagination and dominance of a culture of usury > and > > > > isolation. We can invent money but not cure poverty? Who is driving > the > > > > boat? (oh democracy, hmm).. > > > > > > Distribution of prestige and privilege in our society is as powerful > > > > today as it has been for a long time, how we pursue that I think > will > > > > determine whether we fulfill the promise of democracy. The society > we > > > > engineer will determine whether the activities of citizens resemble > > > > intelligent, caring, inspired beings or a mound of parasites and > > > > resource aggregating automata. Pardon the crude reductionism to an > > > > absurd dichotomy. > > > > > > The possibility of a better world, is it armament enough? Takes more > > > > than imagination, but really, what is it that separates us from the > > > > other animals?! > > > > > > On 1/14/2013 9:43 AM, archytas wrote: > > > > > > > In HE in the UK state school students marginally outperform those > from > > > > > private education - until they enter the job market. Social > mobility > > > > > between income groups has fallen substantially across the west. > We > > > > > have lost a grip on the economic dynamic. Many economists > believed > > > > > the rentier part of capitalism would wither away - much as Marx > > > > > thought the State would. What interests me is that we end up with > the > > > > > 'socialist state' either through 'revolution' or via a financial > > > > > system stacked in favour of sending money to the very rich who > form a > > > > > politburo of their own. My guess is we are trapped because we > can't > > > > > change financialism and attitudes to work - through an underlying > fear > > > > > of freedom and lack of recognition this has to be structured in > such a > > > > > way there is no need to think much about it once we have something > > > > > decent in place. > > > > > > > On Jan 13, 2:01 pm, rigs<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> Regard the lilies of the field... > > > > > > >> In fairness, the US has its share/history of ex-pats. > > > > > > >> Debt has a greater earning potential than savings for financial > > > > >> instiutions. Living beyond one's means is promoted in various > ways. > > > > >> America is the land of re-invention (social and geographic > mobility). > > > > > > >> Am partial to savory myself but my grand-daughters requested pies > so > > > > >> pies they had. I do like something sweet maybe once a day.//My > habits > > > > >> were influenced by my early years at boarding school- Sacred > Heart > > > > >> Convent. Home was rather dramatic and chaotic while school and > camp > > > > >> developed other rhythms. Am quite different from my mother or > daughter > > > > >> in many ways but like many people I have tried out various > "poses". Am > > > > >> only human, afterall. > > > > > > >> On Jan 12, 7:54 am, archytas<[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >>> When I think about a technology solution I'm not much concerned > with > > > > >>> the hardware and software. Most people who drive have very > little > > > > >>> clue how vehicles work and even less about how they are made. > What > > > > >>> I've been pondering for a long time is whether we can do > something > > > > >>> similar for argument and fashion something we can 'drive'. The > > > > >>> spreadsheet is a bit of an example, along with databases. > People get > > > > >>> fixated on numbers and techie stuff - and probably with the > cruelty of > > > > >>> potential and real uses. There is an emancipatory potential. > In > > > > >>> essence this is as simple as, say, me wanting to make a > blueberry pie, > > > > >>> not knowing and being able to whistle-up help from rigs or the > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป > --
