I've done much of the magic in the secret society bit (in what was once 
Zaire).  My friend (a tribal chief) and I were able to repeat the magic in 
my university office.  Sadly, I get rather the reverse experience of Molly 
in our churches.  Jean-Claude was a thorough-going Marxist, though detested 
the Lenin-Mao lines.  I tend to anarchist-mutualism myself and am never 
sure about Molly's higher plane - my sense is it emerges from the material 
conditions of possibility.  Sleeping near ants is not recommended.

I was thinking of the potentials of religion to free us from biological 
structuration, perhaps in the sense of a poison-cure.  It has both higher 
plane experience and chronic rationalisation - the latter, say, in jihad, 
crusades and the ant-like 'let's kill the Yazidi and steal their women' (or 
Numbers 31).  Many of our terms have this pharmikon status, though we allow 
them to dominate in 'good' form - education, government, freedom ...

John Brown is often presented as a deluded religionist, but at least wasn't 
talking western philosophy at the top table of a slave economy.  Religion 
these days seems silent on material matters.

On Monday, 13 October 2014 14:16:26 UTC+1, Molly wrote:
>
> I suppose that it does provide a place to hide in community from the 
> mundane and economic realities of the lower and middle classes if one is 
> necessary.  I've always found a church community to provide its own 
> cultural limitations based on what all human groups offer, and not much 
> insight into faith or support in crisis of faith.  At the head of each 
> church is a human being, struggling as we all do to make sense of it all. 
> The tone of this culture depends invariable on the tone of the leader and 
> they deviate more or less from the greater church dictates.  Mass itself is 
> little more than a ritual although once understood as a process to higher 
> consciousness, can take you there, I've experienced it, and not just in a 
> Catholic mass.  Participating tribal ritual drumming can lead to ecstasies. 
> Much if not all of this is lost on most congregations, in my experience.
>
> On Monday, October 13, 2014 7:03:02 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
>>
>> Many of our terms for freedom have religious origin in the rough phrase 
>> 'freedom from debt' - more and much wider than than Xtian kicking over the 
>> tables of the money-lenders.  There have been many debt jubilees in 
>> history, often on the death of a 'king'.  Debt slavery is and has been much 
>> wider in human communities than most seem to know.  We are not widely 
>> informed on biology and anthropology in this regard.  Religion can raise 
>> the best and worst in us.  Much of it raises the notion of adherents as 
>> some kind of chosen people, sometimes restricted to the in-group blood 
>> line. The Yazidi are such an example.
>>
>> Chimps seem to have a form of 'religion' connected with the seasons - as 
>> many of our belief systems.  I saw footage of some southeast Asian spiders 
>> this morning - they lay eggs in a central tower surrounded by a henge - 
>> immediately bringing Stonehenge to my mind, though they don't hack stones 
>> to shape.  Religion raises Facil's 'we might both (all) be wrong' phrase to 
>> my mind, something often missing in our argument despite knowledge that we 
>> can make many equally powerful arguments about the same stuff (Sextus 
>> Empiricus).  To judge between arguments we need something mystical 
>> (religious).  I say this as a scientist knowing magic wands don't work. 
>>  Religion could be rebellion, a postmodern moment, oversimplifying to the 
>> extreme, of incredulity towards metanarratives like government, law and 
>> economics - a dreamtime against material and spiritual debt-rules.
>>
>> Black holes have recently become 'grey', but dreamtime might challenge 
>> the geometry we use.  Global warming and much else on pollution challenges 
>> us to think 'This Changes Everything' (Naomi Klein) - the economics of 'we 
>> can never afford to do the right things' in my view.  So what does religion 
>> offer on the postmodern moment of rebellion?
>>
>

-- 

--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
""Minds Eye"" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply via email to