I wonder how our lives would change if the majority of people understood and used their imaginations. I know Neil is right when he points out that the education systems discourage it. I sat in my youngest son's first grade class and asked them to imagine a poem as I read it to them Then I asked them to think about their mothers, and asked how many could see a picture of their mothers in their mind, even though she wasn't here. 100% could, no straggling hands raised. We then imagined lots of other simple images, apple, teddy bear, just to warm up. Then I read the class a short A. A. Milne poem from the When We Were Young collection and asked them to visualize it as I read it. Even though my own son was tying my shoe laces together and distracting giggles were ensuing, each child could recount their own inner vision of the poem and we all marveled at how very different they were. I've always found young people happy to work creatively and don't think many teachers understand the importance beyond the boring art project..
I remember this as I think about how imagination enters into the communication process. Chris' exercise in translation demonstrates how translators take all the imagination out of the speaking and the listener or reader is left to implying imagination to fill in the holes. This is using imagination as a skill. Neville talks about awakened imagination (not pushing Neville, just to expound on what I think is his important idea regarding imagination.) That is, the use of imagination in inspiration, breakthrough ideation, creativity at its finest (leading to manifestation.) Beyond fantasy or mechanics, imagination takes us into states of pure awareness. Like the difference between dreaming and lucid dreaming. Using software intuitively and arriving at E=MC2. Although all of our prior experience and hard work gets us to the brink, only awakened imagination engaged at this point can get us beyond, employing our genius. I think everyone has it. Not all discover they have it our are encouraged to utilize it. Indeed, most cultures discourage it. On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 11:10:22 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > We are citizens of Lanikea, a vast supercluster of galaxies with the Milky > Way at one edge, flowing towards the Great Attractor, a kind of > gravitational well our river runs to. Whilst the universe is expanding > away, some material moves towards us and some away. We will collide with > Andromeda in about two-and-a-half billion years, though collide is the > wrong word as what will mostly be colliding is space. We imagine this, > though it fits will a great deal of hard work This work is much tougher, > in my view than that of mystics, though the different work needn't be > uncomplimentary. Let's face it, most people can't even balance the chemical > equations taught at school, let alone do any difficult science. Some may > find this a little superior. I'd just remind people that scientists don't > generally amass great fortunes and are generally rather decent chaps and > chapesses with tendencies towards social equality. > > The imagination is often very limited, perhaps to whatever people do > rather than listen in class or church. We imagine a lot to help us cope > with what is imposed on us, and is hardly surprising in education given how > unsuitable it is to most. I still remember more of the girls in 6th form > than the chemistry. I'm not particularly interested in the religious > imagination - I'd trust to holding Molly's hand or RP's passivity Yet > there is little doubt this imagination is in science. Tony might spot the > patterns better than I. I doubt I'm attracted to the same simplicity as > Molly - yet there are parallels in illusion stripping, which may seem odd > to some amdst mystic talk. The great mystification of our age is economics > and I wonder why those like Dawkins focus so much on religion, other than > to sell books. We can imagine a world without economics and it has its own > Inquisition - for the sky itself will fall without out its liturgies. > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 9:53:35 PM UTC, archytas wrote: > > We actually know something of the embodiment flow. We might consider more > of that in the morning, > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 9:48:35 PM UTC, archytas wrote: > > The wheel really comes off if you tinker with a blackhole in the wrong > way. > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 9:11:36 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Whew.. glad someone does.. with out the wheel it becomes difficult to get > the world to go round. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 10:07 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > I'm good with stub axles. > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 8:52:58 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > No I prefer to make my own sausage much taster . Right now i am having > difficulty collapsing the black hole in the center of our galaxy so that I > will understand how to remove the stub axel from the wheel maybe it is > easier to comprehend within the reality dimension from which we originated. > Or the active imaginations of common sleep reality.. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 9:42 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > Preferably not a Frankfurter. > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 8:29:22 PM UTC, archytas wrote: > > If it was Biggly Banger, maybe we all come from the same sausage? > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 8:13:56 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > I like fire works as long as thee is no need to explain or what makes them > go bang.. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 9:02 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > Nah! You were always around as I remember! In constructor theory, the > term 'in the beginning' is one we try to be sceptical of. Biggly Bang is > looking more and more like a symbol like infinity.I prefer a 'breaking > containment' theory, a bit like Molly's. Magic has long has such too. > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 7:44:57 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > According to christian theology in the beginning was God and the word > was with in God. The Word begat the universe.. > > What can i say except the Total Presence has a highly active imagination.. > long before I came into existence.. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > How anything is made of nothing certainly exercises the imagination - > maybe we have to stop thinking about creation as a necessary part if this? > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 7:21:54 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > To try and understand the presents you have to use your imagination to get > ideas to make sense.. an example might me trying understand how everything > is made from the essence of the Presence and separate at the same time if i > can visualize the Presence being our solar system.. i then can imagine each > planet being totally separate and at the same time total dependent on solar > system to exist. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: Molly <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 5:10 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > Your last sentence is a great one, Allan. How is your imagination used in > what you describe there? > > On Saturday, March 14, 2015 at 12:02:55 PM UTC-4, Allan Heretic wrote: > > He sounds like a lot of people I have listen to over the years. More than > a few have played it for the money angle, sadly.. for them my favorite > bible verses are "He went and hung himself . . . Go do thou likewise." Let > see the first part comes from Judas betrayal of Jesus and the second part > from the story of the good sarmeratan (sp). There is a lot of crafting to > reach the desired goal as i tried to demonstrate. > > There is a lot of guidance for spiritual development... but i have problem > with the every verse rhetoric..especially in english.. the reasoning is > the english language structure is based off the paragraph or the complete > thought. Often times the sentence creates only a partial idea. To many > people try to justify their bad behavior and actions as spiritual guidance.. > > There are good guidelines ten commandments. Jesus love your neighbor as > yourself .. stories demonstrating examples of proper behavior but not > written step by step instruction. Recently the perspective came forward > that there is a highway to hell and a staircase to Heaven.. that just > demonstrates the expected traffic flow. > > For me spirituality is developing and demonstrating the soul's connection > with the Presence.. that connection determines your position within the > mandala of the Totality of the Presence. Which is beyond my ability to > comprehend. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: Molly <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, 14 Mar 2015 2:31 PM > Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Embodied Imagination > > I think much of what is in the public domain is crafted instead of > created, and crafted to sell, so crafted to gain audience action (that > converts to money for someone.) That takes skill, but little imagination. > > I originally discovered Neville when I was exploring the notion of > resurrection, and he wrote a lecture called Resurrection that is I think, > his masterpiece and I have yet to understand. Like Hermann Hesse's Glass > Bead Game, the culmination of his life's work. I read it over and over and > it means something different each time and I understand it more over time. > My husband and I both then read the body of his work from beginning to end > and could understand better the development of his life's work. When > Neville moved from his earlier message that "Your Faith is Your Fortune" to > "Immortal Man" he began losing his audience, at least those who were > looking for get rich quick schemes or mind over matter techniques. His work > moves his audience from duality (The Law) manifest to awareness of our > infinite being, where life manifests for us very differently (The Promise). > "All that you behold, though it appears without, it is within in your own > wonderful human imagination of which this world of mortality is but a > shadow." > > The wonderful thing about Neville, I think, is that he puts out the notion > that the Lord is our imagination. A bold notion that left him lecturing to > the walls at the end of his career. Living in the world of Cesar, or > mortality, or duality, (The Law) we are chasing the laws of cause and > effect that govern us. Recognition is all that is required of immortal man > for manifestation, or non-dual awareness (The Promise) and imagination is > the instrument within us all that takes us there. Because Neville sees > every bible verse as an instruction on using imagination for divine > revelation, those that cannot grasp this are lost in the rhetoric and > connotation of "religion." For him, it is about imagination, not religion. > Because I agree with him wholeheartedly on this one point, I find his body > of work palatable. > > All of the christian mystics that I've read see scripture as a diagram for > living. Neville is distinctive because of his treatment of imagination. I > recognize truth in this notion, because my own imagination creates and > reduces to simplicity for my own divine breakthroughs and recognition. In > sleep and waking life. > > I am certainly not advocating his work as the be all end all for a study > or discussion on imagination. But this one idea of his may be critical to > any intimate dialogue of the subject. > > > > On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 7:56:54 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > I guess my questions generally relate to critical absorption rather than > the passive. We have to know more about why so much in the public domain > is so bland, copied,ice-cream, beer, pets - and what imagination this > feeds. We might wonder where Habermas' communicative rationality > (whatever) shows up - where an imaginative lifeworld exists. > > Much that many feel as imaginative is actually produced by a few simple > rules. These can be embodied in machines, even to the point of narrative > generation. What can we imagine imaginative in the next action flick? Was > one war film made in 1943 and endlessly copied since? The mystics have had > a long run and there is certainly a core. I wonder on potential free play, > rather than institutionalized Utopia of imagination rules we embody in > genre and machine, whether metal or internal-organic. > > > On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 10:59:28 PM UTC, archytas wrote: > > It's more that I prefer what you say and demonstrate Molly. We have to > hope in something simple, though it may emerge from complex work, perhaps > the simplexity angle. The imagination, in many childhood studies, is > connected with deception and, of course, in the wilderness. Otherwise, > without nanoprobes we will never get Allan up to speed as a true heretic! > Neville Goddard creates 'black boxes I don't need - they communicate quite > well in a compelling logic but I'm left outside it. You don't do this and > are more like Abbott, with his sense of humour. > > Thanks for the film spoiler Allan - I did try it for 5 minutes but felt it > lacked imagination. I couldn't read Terry Pratchett or Harry Potter, even > Lewis Carroll. Autistic people often lack the imagination we use in > understanding others and perhaps the feelings to work back through. We > don't all have to be singers from the same page. Religion can build > socially approved epistemic authority, but needs to leave critical space. > If we look outwards, much claimed as product of the imagination is dull > copy. > > On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 9:39:11 PM UTC, Molly wrote: > > You don't like many of my links, that's OK, don't mind. Yoga, Vedanta and > Kundalini, as mystical paths, all take feeling into the higher levels of > consciousness. I don't think the practice of the path matters. We all have > our own. I think that knowing the feeling, and returning through the > feeling, is an important way to explore and return to the highest states. I > think the highest consensus state may be simple and silent as Allan > suggests, and I agree that it is how it feels to me also. > > On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 1:08:24 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > I think Neville gets nearly everything wrong, proceeding by repeated > assertions. He lacks a lot you have Molly. Tony and Rufus is instructive > on who is imaging whom. > > On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 4:50:43 PM UTC, Molly wrote: > > A state of feeling as the spark of life's continuity is worthy of a lot of > discussion and contemplation http://www.feelingisthesecret.org/ > and Neville Goddard based his life's work on the notion that putting > ourselves into a state of consciousness with feeling is the mechanism for > the manifestation of reality. You will have to forgive, because he is also > a Christian mystic, siting biblical quotes with the interpretation that > they were clues to this secret. > > Not sure it was such a secret. Every mystical tradition says the same > thing in some form. And science does seem to be catching up. I am ever in > search of the original edition of Einstein's "The World As I See It" that > was part of my university's rare book section and I could often be caught > > ... -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
