How far to we want to separate ourselves from evolution? The problem is, nature requires that equilibrium rules over chaos. Change requires chaos.
On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 4:06:06 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: > > "An awareness of how our viewpoint creates our experience naturally allows > for an intrinsic morality - one that comes from the inside and moves out, > instead of being developed and then imposed from the outside in". This is > typical Molly stuff I think very important and mostly wrong at the same > time. It's from page 4 of 'All About Living' (Book One) - > http://www.amazon.co.uk/All-About-Living-Book-1/dp/0557265746/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8 > > When people can speak relatively freely with each other, it is possible to > compare the odious Alan of 'Modern Toss' with our own friend Allan, > growling from the cellar or being a breath of fresh air on whim and mood. > One can admire Molly's work and see glaring holes, be touched by Tony's > art and compare it, say, with a children's entertainer twisting up balloon > animals (Tony would have plumbing pipe to twist) - think of Don with my old > Browning gas-action shotgun on watch for over-wordiness, Chris as 'Duffman' > and so on. > > Rather than being big things as in Tony's reservation, alterverses might > be small, like friendship and ribbing, potentially the turn of the vile > insults to exchanges of charm. What I'm thinking about is how we can keep > 'alter claims' honest. > > First, we have to be able to recognise the claims and how they are > supported in alter-universes. To get to what any of this means we need to > talk through the claims we make. I find many people who claim to have > intrinsic morality but seem to me almost entirely outer directed and hardly > switched on at all. At some point we have to consider whether Molly's text > offers alterverse justification to people with almost no real > self-development, possibly a dishonest promise whether she intends it or > not. I haven't seen anyone in ME since Chazwin who would take on something > like this. > > I have an example from science, but it will take me a while to write out. > If I wasn't doing this for something else, I wouldn't bother. > > On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 5:12:43 AM UTC+1, archytas wrote: >> >> There's a character called Allan in 'Modern Toss' - though with part of >> the 'L' removed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6qaann426o. >> >> It was easy to get what you were on about Tony - the leap into the hole >> Allan landed in has more of that "alter" feel. >> >> Somewhere in the thesis, there is a quote concerning a woman saving the >> world rather than another Noah. My experience with women as bosses is that >> they are usually even worse than men, often very cruel micro-managers. Of >> course, I avoid work with bosses. Clinton is just a crook now - Warren >> sometimes looks OK. GOP women turn out to believe in super-weirdo stuff >> like the Antarctic being on the Moon and ruled by arthropods. They play >> well with the public until photographs with tall black guys emerge. >> >> Is a promise of the female divine saving the world honest? Sounds well >> over the top to me. Molly makes claims for the imagination, but also talks >> of where the hell anyone can put their hard-earned and get some kind of >> return in dotage rather than suffer the general fate of oldies in noble >> savage circumstances (buried alive, spear end). What is on offer in >> Molly's alter-universe of 'salvation', what are the honest promises if we >> still need a pension plan (that probably won't work!) - this is not a >> criticism of my friend. I think these paradoxes arise as we speak. Allan >> sometimes 'grouches' them out. It maybe that a piece of Tony's art >> facilitates reception of hundreds of 'alterverses'. I can help create >> learning situations to explore alter. Molly talks of non-dual etc - I >> think with some spark of originality I don't find in better known authors. >> >> I know, as soon as I speak, that I should be able to 'speal alter' - not >> some bill of goods as Allan said. There are, for instance, at least nine >> different types of economics. Organisation theories generally start in >> American pop-psychology, yet go somewhere else entirely if we start in >> continental philosophy, critical models of psychology or even good sense we >> confuse with common sense. >> >> >> I don't wonder anymore about Allan. >>> >>> I was only offering a thought as to a very large denominations curious >>> veneration of a quasi deity and why that never trickled down to the >>> exclusive Vatican men's club. >>> >>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 4:08:44 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>> >>>> I'm wondering whether we end up screwed by terms as big as universe >>>> before we start. I think alter-universes may be small. Maybe Allan's >>>> reply to you here is one Tony? I don't understand where he got to there >>>> in >>>> response to what you said - a world of understanding is missing somehow. >>>> I >>>> can even feel something threatening in what Allan says, almost Gabby-like. >>>> "Now do not ever attack my Father and his beliefs ever again.. get some >>>> brains and understanding in your head" My head can only ask 'where the >>>> fuck did that come from'? - somewhat mediated by some idea I have of him >>>> as >>>> a nice guy not that different from me. >>>> >>>> I don't start thinking with much that is clear to start with and some >>>> of my journeys end up as forgettable rough passages. Alternate universes >>>> are like Hilbert's 'Hotel Infinity' - never full because a further room >>>> can >>>> always be added. >>>> >>>> I was wondering more on what we can honestly promise about them when we >>>> speak of imaginative change as a real possibility for another person. I >>>> suppose, along with the MA student, we could all explore the feminine >>>> divine in us. I'd guess even Moll would wonder where we might get a drink >>>> of it, even if she has plenty of rhetoric well beyond the thesis. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 5:34:33 PM UTC+1, facilitator wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have trouble with the term "Alternate Universe" . The universe, by >>>>> nature, would include all alternatives. >>>>> >>>>> The Catholics have a cult of Mary which states in repetitive prayer: >>>>> "Holy Mary mother of God", seeing her as a co-redeemer and creator of >>>>> the >>>>> divine. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 9:34:28 AM UTC-4, archytas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sex is how we currently reproduce, gender is probably a wider concept >>>>>> and hardly stops at male and female. I had wondered if you guys think >>>>>> much >>>>>> in terms of social construction. I tend to like working with people who >>>>>> can tell the shit from the sawdust and why the unmentioned in the manual >>>>>> crow-bar is so essential. 'I'm going to help from the feminine divine >>>>>> Neil' doesn't sound very promising. The mug, for instance, could come >>>>>> from >>>>>> various 'inspirations'. And one can say much the same of the thesis. I >>>>>> used to see a hundred of so a year, a few quite brilliant (this one >>>>>> isn't), >>>>>> some so obviously good in the practice I'd have preferred no write-up >>>>>> and >>>>>> down to the plagiarised majority. We might take Allan's stance and ask >>>>>> for >>>>>> a 'jar of feminine divine', but this isn't how I would treat something >>>>>> like >>>>>> this educationally. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think an 'alter-universe' needs to be created for a thesis like >>>>>> this to exist as a process. We might think more generally about the >>>>>> difference between the alter-universe of a Muslim woman in an area with >>>>>> a >>>>>> promotion of virtue and prevention of vice squad and a grad student of >>>>>> Judith Butler. >>>>>> >>>>>> What interests me is what promises we can genuinely make about >>>>>> radical change. You see, amongst some academics this thesis would be an >>>>>> outright fail. I could both support and crush it, if I was hired as an >>>>>> advocate. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would see stuff like this as relevant to building with the >>>>>> imagination - though also find it dull and conservative. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 at 12:12:43 PM UTC+1, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I will be the first to admit having a great deal of problems with >>>>>>> gender and spirituality . When I feel someone trying to sell me a >>>>>>> bill >>>>>>> of good I lose interest quickly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'll get back on why I think any aspects of divine relate to >>>>>>> alter-universes Molly. Allan could be seen to miss the point on this >>>>>>> thesis, though my own response had a lot of his experience in it. >>>>>>> Here's a >>>>>>> cruder example of the 'divine feminine'. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
