I agree with all of that.

On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 4:25:20 PM UTC-4, archytas wrote:
>
> I share most of these sentiments Don but probably not the 'solutions'. 
>  I've seen the allocation of money pretty close up and it amounts to little 
> more than you and me taking the town funds to Vegas for a wild weekend 
> hoping to come back with a gambling win.  We have, of course, just 
> allocated trillions to the rich that has gone down the drain, just as 
> regional rehabilitation funds line pockets of cronies in local government 
> and construction mobs.  It's sad and I feel fed up of it too.  I don't see 
> this as racism.
>
> On Sunday, May 10, 2015 at 9:08:05 PM UTC+1, Don Johnson wrote:
>>
>> Oh yeah, forgot about the harbor. I'm really just talking about the 
>> really bad neighborhoods anyway. The kind of neighborhoods you'd have to be 
>> a junkie or mentally disabiled to actually want to live in. IF they can be 
>> saved, fine. Using Chicago as a template I don't see that happening. 
>> Looking at who's in charge over there I don't see that happening. They'll 
>> get hundreds of millions of State, Federal and Charity dollars and they 
>> will line their pockets and piss the rest away with fresh paint and 
>> pinewood shacks. That's the ugly truth. 
>>
>> My brother used to be Director of Radiation Control for the Navy but now 
>> heads the EPA Dept. He still goes to all the shipyards, including Japan, 
>> fairly regularly. I know he was over there in Baltimore last week I wonder 
>> if the riots affected their routine. Actually he was in Kittery last week 
>> don't know about Baltimore. 
>>
>> Your right about the Moms, Molly. I've been impressed by single black 
>> moms before. Particularly sports star's moms. 6 or 8 kids and she manages 
>> to raise decent human being on her own and even one or two that end up 
>> really excelling. Impressive. The dead beat dads I have a healthy dose of 
>> contempt for. Some cultures suck. 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 10, 2015 at 9:56 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> We have a long way to go with race relations in this country, Don. Our 
>>> personal feelings are one place to begin because we have complete influence 
>>> on them. My own are by no means pure, and I've had to flush out much 
>>> cultural programming over the years. Since it's mother's day, I will say 
>>> that in every race, barring mental health and addiction issues, mothers 
>>> want the best for their children including opportunities to succeed given 
>>> the resources available. I have seen this and lived it.
>>>
>>> I can't say that Baltimore does not want to be helped. When I was there 
>>> on business I loved the city and the harbor, but learned little of the 
>>> politics effecting it now. Because of the navy's presence in the harbor, I 
>>> imagine that this brings several federal security agencies into town to 
>>> maintain order, as is also the case in Detroit. I see Baltimore as a city 
>>> worth saving. And not just because it is in Mary-land.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 9, 2015 at 7:55:54 PM UTC-4, Don Johnson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You can't save a town that doesn't want to be saved. If I was king shit 
>>>> of turd mountain I'd focus on those individuals and families that want to 
>>>> be saved. I'd get them the hell out of Baltimore and set them up in the 
>>>> 'burbs somewhere. It's worked before. The rest can burn; I'm fed up. The 
>>>> same goes with the ME. And Africa. Anywhere oppressed with Sharia law. 
>>>> Those that want to be saved; come here. Assimilate. 
>>>>
>>>> But no. Pardon moi. I think I just went all bigoted and racist. Live 
>>>> and let live as they say. I'll just mind my own beeswax. Nothing to see 
>>>> here. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 10:08 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We have almost become each other Francis - I used that poem in my 
>>>>> doctorate and now find myself agreeing everything you say like the worst 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> disciples!  The rough beast is obvious - I was more impressed by the bit 
>>>>> about the best lacking all conviction and who now had conviction.  The 
>>>>> German public were voting for parties that would end democracy - Nazis 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> Communists - how often do we see that with Muslim Brotherhoods and the 
>>>>> West's now de facto behind-the-scenes one-unelected-party state.  I went 
>>>>> through a phase of trying to make leadership a key factor, but in the end 
>>>>> I 
>>>>> hate the concept for its lack of 'biology', real history and 
>>>>> anthropology.  
>>>>> I always think of the septic tank theory of society with the really big 
>>>>> chunks rising to the top..
>>>>>
>>>>> Veblen was writing in the same times.  His hope was in technological 
>>>>> progress matched to human needs and his rough beast the 
>>>>> business-financial 
>>>>> control system - I lump the latter as the 'allocation class'.  Soddy was 
>>>>> doing economics too, saying we would be better off with a few good adding 
>>>>> machines than the banksters.  There was much discussion of lytric systems 
>>>>> - 
>>>>> the word doesn't google now.  Today's talk is in Modern Monetary Theory 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> Positive Money and would have relevant application in such as Detroit, 
>>>>> the 
>>>>> Middle East and Bolton.  Jumping somewhat, Molly's local ideas have much 
>>>>> merit until one thinks of the rough beast bogeyman of economics and their 
>>>>> failure almost everywhere for 50 years.  Talk of economies coming back is 
>>>>> rarely true - though I have made such claims in regional economic forums 
>>>>> to 
>>>>> get hands on what relief effort (EU grants mostly) was up for grabs.  
>>>>> Molly 
>>>>> as Mary is a spokesperson for such an outfit.  I worked with people from 
>>>>> Chicago more than 15 years ago doing much the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> Positive Money could bring the rough beast of economic externality to 
>>>>> heel in the local.  Such would be an attack on the allocation class 
>>>>> through 
>>>>> government by the people.  I pronounce this world revolution feeling too 
>>>>> knackerd to put up a couple of replacement fence panels!  Old Boxer feels 
>>>>> on his way to the glue factory.  The scheme sounds rather too like the 
>>>>> Nazi 
>>>>> effort for comfort, rather than Soviet Paradise, in economic-social 
>>>>> terms.  
>>>>> The first thing one must accept is the current economic system cannot 
>>>>> work 
>>>>> for peaceful, stable, reasonably egalitarian outcomes.  The idea that it 
>>>>> can is a myth, held by many, especially Americans, that we can fine tune 
>>>>> the current system.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are many voices on positive money, whether they refer to it or 
>>>>> not directly.  Zerohedge has the libertarians, naked capitalism the MMT 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> the notion is implied in all social epistemology (Critical Theory etc) 
>>>>> economic geography and the heterdox economists like Steve Keen.  
>>>>> Economists 
>>>>> generally are a dire block to the discussion and I agree with fellow 
>>>>> scientists that their departments should be closed.  I favour bringing a 
>>>>> much wider form of project based money and learning into operation.  
>>>>> There 
>>>>> are some small examples.
>>>>>
>>>>> The big question is how to do anything under the gaze of the 
>>>>> Establishment gun.  We are, of course, up to our arses in alligators and 
>>>>> only now thinking of draining the swamp (and hopefully concerned to 
>>>>> relocate the alligators).  If we were able to find a model that worked in 
>>>>> practice, there is still a history in which we don't transfer it in order 
>>>>> to maintain beggar they neighbour.  Afghanistan is a good example, though 
>>>>> there are many.  Modernisation there has repeatedly been kiboshed by the 
>>>>> West since the 1920's, even to power systems on the Hellmand river 
>>>>> raising 
>>>>> salt into the agricultural land leaving it fit for poppy growing.
>>>>>
>>>>> My guess is the technical doing isn't that hard. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, May 7, 2015 at 2:13:57 PM UTC+1, frantheman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
>>>>>>     Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
>>>>>>     The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
>>>>>>     The ceremony of innocence is drowned;, 
>>>>>>     The best lack all conviction, while the worst
>>>>>>     Are full of passionate intensity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeats' "Second Coming" is nearly 100 years old now, written in the 
>>>>>> immediate aftermath of WWI and in the middle of a six year convulsive 
>>>>>> period (1916-1922) which led to Irish independence. I've read somewhere 
>>>>>> that it's one of the most quoted poems in the English language - the 
>>>>>> "rough 
>>>>>> beast [...] slouching towards Bethlehem to be born" seems to ring all 
>>>>>> kinds 
>>>>>> of bells. Reading your latest post, Neil, brought the first verse 
>>>>>> immediately to my mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even data has problems; what data do you collect (though this problem 
>>>>>> is solved if you collect everything about everything, which is now the 
>>>>>> normal digital standard, from Google to the NSA), more importantly, what 
>>>>>> criterea do you use to sort it - or, put more contemporarily, what 
>>>>>> algorithms do you use to mine it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To quote another fellow Irishman, Oscar Wilde has a character in 
>>>>>> "Earnest" observe; "The truth is rarely pure and never simple." In our 
>>>>>> fractured post-modernist realities, truth has become irrelevant. You 
>>>>>> have 
>>>>>> your truth, I have mine, the Salafist living across the road from me has 
>>>>>> another, the neo-Nazi down the street yet another. In the social media 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> extremists from both sides shout without listening and any nuanced and 
>>>>>> more 
>>>>>> complex analysis is, at best, ignored, more frequently instrumentalised 
>>>>>> by 
>>>>>> the one or other extreme.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The recent British election campaign has shown that neither of the 
>>>>>> putative Prime Ministers wants to say anything real about any serious 
>>>>>> issue, for fear of alienating potential supporters. They've both been 
>>>>>> trying to learn from the doyenne of no-speak, Angela Merkel here in 
>>>>>> Germany, whose only principle is to say as little as possible while, at 
>>>>>> the 
>>>>>> same time, mastering the art of producing anodyne balm for the insecure, 
>>>>>> self-righteous petit bourgeois soul of the German majority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first season of The Wire (in my view one of the best series TV 
>>>>>> has ever produced) will be 13 years old next month. One of the 
>>>>>> frightening 
>>>>>> things about Baltimore is that the city and US society seem to have 
>>>>>> learned 
>>>>>> exactly nothing from David Simon's work. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Il faut cultiver notre jardin," Voltaire's Candide increasingly 
>>>>>> seems to me to have got it right. As you say, the temptation to retreat 
>>>>>> to 
>>>>>> an ivory tower, having secured - as far as possible - the necessities of 
>>>>>> basic living, is almost overwhelming. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet ... and yet ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe all we can do is just not give up, try to cultivate decency and 
>>>>>> humanity and openness and listening to each other in our own lives and 
>>>>>> in 
>>>>>> the small islands of dignity we can discover in our ordinary lives. And 
>>>>>> protest in our own little ways against the lies, and 
>>>>>> oversimplifications, 
>>>>>> and hypocrisy, and bigotry. Shout out. And howl ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, 
>>>>>> starving hysterical naked,
>>>>>>    dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for 
>>>>>> an angry fix,
>>>>>>    angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection 
>>>>>> to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am Montag, 4. Mai 2015 12:59:15 UTC+2 schrieb Molly:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The big ongoing news here in the states is the rash of clash between 
>>>>>>> demonstrators and police. The demonstrations are (supposedly) brought 
>>>>>>> on by 
>>>>>>> the ever growing voice against the use of excessive force by police. It 
>>>>>>> is 
>>>>>>> such a complex issue, and the demonstrations themselves are not a 
>>>>>>> simple 
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since living in Detroit I've heard many storied about how the riots 
>>>>>>> of 1967 altered the course of history for the city, and changed 
>>>>>>> individual 
>>>>>>> lives forever. Most recently, I cried like a baby listening to the 
>>>>>>> eulogy 
>>>>>>> of a fine man given my his loving wife, my friend. He was a catholic 
>>>>>>> priest 
>>>>>>> at the time, and she a Detroit resident. He left the priesthood 
>>>>>>> afterward 
>>>>>>> and they married a couple of years later. There were over 40 priests at 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> services, three from Rome officiated the funeral mass. This guy was on 
>>>>>>> the 
>>>>>>> fast track to Cardinal when the riots shook his very core and changed 
>>>>>>> his 
>>>>>>> value system forever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It gets me thinking about the very nature of the waves of 
>>>>>>> demonstrations. In the sixties, of course, they were spurred by civil 
>>>>>>> rights issues, Then the war in Vietnam (four dead in Ohio). Now it 
>>>>>>> seems, 
>>>>>>> in the age of transparency, the relationship between law enforcement 
>>>>>>> and 
>>>>>>> the criminals they deter (treatment during the time of arrest.) 
>>>>>>> Complicated 
>>>>>>> and exacerbated by the new "protest for hire" gang, the same well 
>>>>>>> funded 
>>>>>>> group that travels the US heightening racial tension (Al Sharpton, 
>>>>>>> Jessie 
>>>>>>> Jackson.) Baltimore's riots had a big gang problem that hasn't been 
>>>>>>> seen 
>>>>>>> yet, the street gangs hoping on board in an organized way to conduct 
>>>>>>> criminal activity in the chaos. Something's gotta give.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Certainly, the police methods employed in some metropolitan cities 
>>>>>>> should be eliminated and cleaned up. But the police have to be able to 
>>>>>>> defend themselves and do their job (which should be protecting and 
>>>>>>> serving 
>>>>>>> the public.) Where any of that goes off the rail is where it gets murky.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When we can't have civil unrest without it being corrupted by monied 
>>>>>>> interests looking to make things worse, there is little hope for 
>>>>>>> societal 
>>>>>>> change. This may be the reason for the current chaos. Follow the money.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  -- 
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>

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