On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 01:39:18PM +0100, frantisek holop wrote: > hmm, on Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 10:29:27AM +0100, Jonathan Glaschke said that > > The Web is against good design. You can see this by looking at the most > > people's choice of browser. Bad web browsers are the biggest problem in > > creating a good looking website. I now nobody using CSS who takes care > > of ie 4 or older. Nearly nobody is actually taking care of ie 5/5.5, > > too, but thats default in windows 2000. > > there are ways to get this (mostly) right. > there are great pages which show perfectly in lynx/links > and have maybe a couple of div's inside. > > css and xhtml does not exclude simplicity. > one can make beautiful (eye pleasing) sites > with using 4 div's (not nested too). > that would be great, but thats an exception. > > also, one cannot stick to the old technologies all the time. > the project is overall bold in scratching old stuff (telnetd, > rlogin and friends). but with html, it's back in the 90's. > telned is no longer in source. > > > So you have to get tricky - ever seen the new freebsd website: > > > > <div id="CONTENT"> > > <div id="FRONTCONTAINER"> > > <div id="FRONTMAIN"> > > <div id="FRONTFEATURECONTAINER"> > > <div id="FRONTFEATURELEFT"> > > <div id="FRONTFEATURECONTENT"> > > so what if there are divs? should be tables or what? > the new site looks just great in links/lynx btw. > and it looks (quite) good in modern browsers _also_ > so who is robbed of the precious info inside? > Do you think thats good code? That's just overkill because of broken webbrowser. It's just pain in my eyes.
> > What a lot of people forget is that having a good website means having > > content, not having a good design. > > yes, and what a lot of people forget is that having a good website means > having nice layout too. > > so how about both? > > it's like saying a good book is only the good content. > yeah, and try to read it if it's typeset in comic sans ms. > that depends on how you look at it. Comic Sans MS looks good, a good readable font doesn't look good, but is usefull. That's exactly my problem with "modern design". If you don't specify a font in a web page then the result is a good readable and well sized font. > > > So, we are talking about a better, fresh and modern design using XHTML > > and CSS. We can't use XHTML 1.1 (which is the latest web standatrd) > > because most people's browser can't handle it, thats the first limitation > > where's your numbers? what's most people? "most people" on the web > these days is some version of IE. i thought ie supports xhtml. XHTML 1.1 must be shipped as application/xhtml+xml. IE can't handle this and ask the user (or the "idiot", as you signature says ;) where to save this file. That's not a real problem since you can use xhtml 1.0 but that shows how broken things are. > > > And if we talk about a new design - why don't we talk about generating > > sites with a modern scripting language? That's only the next step, but, > > who wants that? Who needs that? Who wants to implement it? > > could be, doesn't have to be. certainly would save a lot time > to the devs which could be used for something else. couldn't > cvs it directly though (the content). > > > > If there is only one person who has problems to view the content because > > of a new and tricky design, than the new design was a step in the wrong > > direction. Thats my opinion. > > well, good look serving all the people. > come on, you know that you can't please everyone, don't you? > _that_ is precisely what openbsd is about. it never aimed > pleasing _everyone_ > > > Theo is man of principles, i have seen that proven many times. > but the site is somehow a sad exception to his principles. > it's just not a priority and i can live with that. > > > PS: If we change now to a modern design, how long would is last until > > the first person thinks about a flash movie on the starting page? > > i wish people would not be such extremist on this list.. > > do not insult me with flash, earthling. > > -f > -- > user: a technical term used by computer pros. see idiot. > I'm not against xhtml, but like easy things. Putting 100 divs in one file is no solution. Jonathan -- | /"\ ASCII Ribbon | Jonathan Glaschke - Lorenz-Goertz-Stra_e 71, | \ / Campaign Against | 41238 Moenchengladbach, Germany; | X HTML In Mail | jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | / \ And News | http://jonathan-glaschke.de/ [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
