On 14/5/19 6:07 pm, ULF wrote:
> On a mac, on a recent gnome, on a kde, etc. it's easier for a user to keep
> track of multiple jobs without thinking about the OS, but rather thinking
> about contents. It's a matter of fact that computers are mostly used to do
> things that have nothing to do with programming and sysadmin, and also
> developers here must, while programming/administering the machine, maybe
> write a letter to the insurance, browse 20+ pages while looking at a
> calendar (maybe shared) during a phone call, opening the accounting program
> for taxes and so on...
>
> In 2019, doing all of the above with fvwm, twm, (whatever-tiny)wm not only
> feels awkward, but also time consuming and less flexible. The argument that
> one just has to type "command &" is not as valid as just clicking an icon
> when one of your hands is busy holding the phone or a document.
>
> And, btw, let's say it: fvwm looks like 70s/80s, it's full of charm for
> retrocomputing but it's pretty ugly to see in 2019. And many people prefer
> just right clicking on a picture to change background rather than finding
> which config file they gotta change and then change it.
I find FVWM 2.6.5 does reasonably well for my needs. Yes, I'm
multitasking between a web browser, a terminal session, an email client,
sometimes dozens of text editor (gVim) windows, office suites and
various specialist tools.
My day job involves software development mostly in C, JavaScript and
Python (occasionally C++, PHP, Java, CSS/HTML), and my productivity is
right up there with others that use full-blown desktops (Unity) and IDEs
(Webstorm).
Granted, I've taken the time to actually tune it to my work flow, and no
the journey for doing that is not what I'd call "novice friendly" (note
I didn't say "user friendly", because users come in all levels of
experience).
Prior to that I was running KDE. Notably KDE up to the early 4.0
series, because I found after that point, the desktop ran too slow on
the hardware I had available to use: trying to coax a Pentium II 300MHz
laptop upgraded to its maximum specs (160MB RAM, 160GB HDD) to run the
software I needed for university studies circa 2008 was bad enough, I
didn't need to bog the machine down with a bloated desktop to boot!
Thus, out of necessity, I went from KDE back to FVWM (which ironically
is where I started, as it was the standard desktop for Red Hat Linux 4.0
circa 1996) and adapted it to more-or-less behave the way I needed it to
work. I've even made it work on touch-screens (Raspberry Pi 7").
Eye-candy be damned, I want to *use* my computer!
Really, user friendliness is about being able to adapt the machine to
the user in whatever situation they may find themselves in, whether it
be being stuck with old hardware for financial reasons that you must
make work; having a temporary or permanent inability to use certain body
parts for data entry purposes; or sensory issues preventing the use of
(or needing special configuration of) specific output devices.
KDE 3 was good for that, and was reasonably configurable, but a lack of
flexibility in v4 and a move to a more bloated core made it untenable.
Gnome has been rigid in its capabilities from the start (used it on
several occasions, including v1.0 with Enlightenment), although I hear
it's good with accessibility. awesome wasn't so "awesome" after a month
or two's use. XFCE hasn't really grown on me either.
There was an attempt to make a user-friendly desktop out of FVWM:
fvwm-crystal. If anything, the more important thing is providing an
easy way for users to select some sane defaults, then provide tools for
customisation -- including the "get out of my way and let me DIY" option.
It really is a horses for courses market, and I don't think we'll get
away from that. It's the reason why the commercial desk-top market is
largely a two-horse race (Apple/Microsoft) and why the open-source
movement is awash with different operating system distributions and
window managers.
I did try OpenBSD as a desktop -- on a Lemote Yeeloong, and while it
didn't work out for my needs, I did find it refreshing compared to what
I was used to on Linux. I'd use it more if it weren't for my need to
run things like Docker at work. (Not sure if the old Linux binary
support could be re-instated to run that… but I understand there were
good reasons for culling it, maintenance being one.)
I do not think we should just be "doing ${something}" because everyone
else does -- I think there is a real point to OpenBSD's KISS approach to
system design and would prefer that continues. :-)
--
Stuart Longland (aka Redhatter, VK4MSL)
I haven't lost my mind...
...it's backed up on a tape somewhere.
