> "full value", owed for CD Sales , transfers of undisclosed amounts - > some clear facts would be nice, this sounds like waffle.
Watch your words. What you say may have minor effects on whether I keep making release CDs or anything in the future. I don't like your tone, whoever you are, so show some respect for what we do. > 1. There appear to be no contracts, so Theo and Wim or the bodies > they represent or act for, have no written agreement as to what the > involved parties were supposed to do, if that is true then that is a major > governance short coming and whoever let this situation come to pass > needs a good kicking, in essence you've gotten the fucking mess > you deserve and who ever is responsible for openbsd's legal governance > (if anyone) should stand up and take the blame and sort it out. There was a gentleman's agreement between Wim that he would be a preferred distributor. He got the tshirt and poster art for free. Otherwise, he was just like another distributor, and had to pay 60% per CD. That was an incredibly sweet deal. We have no idea how many tshirts or posters Wim has made and sold in Europe. Everyone you are wearing, you should know that Wim got every cent for them. That was OK, as long as he kept the payments for the CDs up. But he did not keep up on the payments of the CDs. After it was found out that he was very late in payment, the contract was changed in some small ways to encourage him to get caught up. > 2. Because there is no contract, now we descend into > He said, I said and other equivalent bollocks that really no-one can verify > or substantiate as there appear to be no documents or agreements > or contracts that we can verify against. The world is not that simple. > 3. If KD85 is delinquent in payments - who are the amounts owed to. is it ? > > a) The Computer Store for the supply of goods. Which I assumed are covered > by some terms and conditions and invoice terms. To the Computer Shop, who pays me a salary for my efforts. > b) Some legal entity that represents Openbsd, which is owed money for > something, > what for, it is not exactly clear - is it a revenue share from > T-Shirts, Posters, fsking plush toys ? Wim received all the profits from the tshirts, posters and plush toys, lanyards, and I suppose even the mugs that are being sold at various places in Europe. > . And where is the agreement covering the terms of this. ? Why does this matter? Why are you even arguing on an OpenBSD mailing list about this if you don't care about OpenBSD? Or do you care more about the beer that Wim bought you? > c) Theo personally for something. > > 4. Donations - I would have assumed they are property of the legal > entity which is > Openbsd's foundation, so if that entity doesn't account clearly for > donations and > doesn't maintain some financial accounts that reflect where,who,when > and what it was used for - then you fucking well deserve this mess. The donations are entirely seperate. According to the accounting I have here the total amounts Wim transferred from the Belgian account against donations is $3402.48, for an account which was open for many years to accept donations. That is substantially less than the normal donations that come in to the project via the other methods. Wim has provided _no_ accounting of the donations to me, so I cannot say that it has been handled right. > *years* in paying the full value - what the hell does this mean > ?,full-value ??? ,surely there is a declared invoice value which gets > paid, you can't really retrospectively > change the invoices. Each CD has a manufacturing cost. Then there is a sale cost from the Computer Shop Any distributor can buy them in >=20CDs at a 40% discount. Some larger distributors got a bit more of a discount, but typically not much. Wim fell behind in paying the difference between cost and the discount value. > If the Computer store is owed money , then there should be outstanding > invoice amounts - There are. > so either there are outstanding amounts There are. > or there are not- > if this is some weirdo retrospective thing where one party wants to now get > extra payment for something that was never invoiced for > and is not covered by something verfiable , then good luck to you. And if that works out that it kills OpenBSD in the same decade that Wim has bought a half million euro house, then yeah, I'd say that your perspective is just a teeny bit out of whack. > This is a mess and worse it's a stupid mess, and forming up > blindly to support one party or the other is stupid too. > > No agreements, less then clear facts, mud slinging == a recipe for disaster > > Someone get in the middle and mediate, someone who both parties trust, > and get it > sorted as this is going downhill fast. Mediate what? Mediate the payment of what he owes? Yes, I hope that happens before a court has to get involved. Wim will not sell product after 4.6. Other distributors and resellers will.
