Keith In principle we agree - it's just the outlook that's different.
I feel that today, a java plugin should be distributed with the browser , or at least RPMs made available for the common distributions. Installing Sun's JRE is a pain and manual symlinking / copying the *.so files is NOT conducive to user-friendliness. Same applies for other plugins. About *.tar.gz ..... (assuming binary) This is comparable to distributing an application as a *.zip file and expecting the user to extract it, place it in a directory, create links on the Desktop / Start Menu (ideally to the correct *.exe included in the *.zip). If it's a *.src.tar.gz (source), then the user is asking for trouble. Essentially, he has downloaded the wrong package and should be looking for compiled binaries, ideally statically linked so there wouldn't be too many library dependency issues to handle. This is the equivalent to downloading a source package for a Windows application, loading up MS Visual C whatever version, compiling, etc, etc. Apart from the obvious drawback that you have to BUY the compiler before you compile your open-source application! Unless you want to mess around with cygwin, and it's version of compilers, plus KDE on top for GUI..., in which case you need to be well on the road to 6. UBER GEEK status. The previous 2 paragraphs assume, of course, that you have first gained a PHd in Masochism! If you download a finished product, then you normally find that binaries are available. If you download an unfinished product that is pre-beta, then you should expect to have problems! What is a normal user doing mucking around with pre-beta stuff anyway? Unless he is trying to travel the road from 1. Absolute Beginner to 6. UBER GEEK ..... In which case he should expect problems/hassles/trashed filesystems/reinstallation nightmares .... etc etc etc... Maybe the real issue is that there is very little finished software available out there, forcing users to chase for anything that could help, and delving (out of desperation) into development stuff! The fact that Linux users do NOT normally expect to pay for application software makes it difficult for an application developer to create a product that can SELL. You want open-source? Mela you need to be a bit of a geek. You want finished, refined, well-documented, with help files that mean something, manuals, online support, plus other stuff? Mela you need a binary-packaged application, and if it's something that not EVERYONE is interesting to contribute in, you may well need to PAY for the license. Most likely to run on a Windows OS. The only REALLY well-refined applications for Linux are OOO and Evolution - and even these only compare to the Windows equivalents if you look at 3 to 5 year old versions (in terms of functionality, features, bla, bla, bloody bla...) Obviously my opinion... ________________________________ Kevin Attard Compagno Malta Linux User Group (http://linux.org.mt) <http://www.ielmalta.com> www.ielmalta.com <http://www.ielmalta.com> Kevin Attard Compagno Integrated Electronics Ltd. Naxxar Road, San Gwann - MALTA. [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tel: fax: mobile: 21374251 21374294 79494022 -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Vassallo Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 11:01 AM To: Malta Linux User Group - general list Subject: Re: [LINUX.ORG.MT] Windows/Linux, Outing, Mirror etc... Kevin Attard Compagno wrote: >Linux is **EASY** to use. >Linux is **EASY** to protect (viruses main issue). >Linux is however **DIFFICULT** to configure to particular tastes. > > Since when is having a flash player, or having a browser plugin, or having a media player that plays MP3s a "particular taste"? Everyone wants these things. >Windows is **EASY** to use. >Windows is **A NIGHTMARE** to protect with so many viruses targetet to it. >Windows is **EASY-ish** to configure. > > Agree >I have just installed FC2. > >With **NO** tweaking (and that means install, log on for the 1st time, >and WORK), I have a working office suite, email client, and html >browser, File Manager, Image Editor, etc. > > Yes, but what if you want to download and install a .tar.gz.. would a home user be able to do it? >It's additional configuration that becomes problematic for a **USER** - >specific examples: installing java support for a browser, installing >Flash support, patching the audio player to handle MP3s (rather that >.ogg only), etc etc. > >It's just a question of the distros finding a way to package the >missing features into the distribution CDs. And most of the >difficulties are probably license related. > > I don't agree. What you're saying is that distributions should package every conceivable application a user might want to use with the operating system. Personally, I think that's baloni. Users will definately want to install something that doesn't exist in the distro cds. I mean, try fitting sourceforge on CD! A system such as apt is much better. >======================================================================= >===== >================================ >Cost is not a usability issue so... > > >________________________________ > > >Kevin Attard Compagno >Malta Linux User Group (http://linux.org.mt) > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >On Behalf Of Keith Vassallo >Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2004 9:24 AM >To: Malta Linux User Group - general list >Subject: [LINUX.ORG.MT] Windows/Linux, Outing, Mirror etc... > >Hi, > >Firstly one quick shout out to Philip - I'm definately not RMS! If >anything, I'd be more of a cross between ESR and RMS but definately not RMS himself! > >Secondly. I seem to be the only person on this list who seems to think >Linux is hard to use, hmmm.... I would have expected differently and >think that with this attitude Linux will never be as easy to use as I >hoped it would be. Oh well, ce la vie. > >Thirdly, Andew now has a booting machine! Our mirror is one step closer >to completion guys. Here's a summary of what's left to do: > > 1) Install an Operating System (Linux, duh) > 2) Setup Rsync, vnc, etc... > 3) Move the machine to the ISP > 4) Let the machine download the stuff > 5) Announce a public link > 6) people download what they want > >After this, we'll re-visit the issue of adding disk space, memory, >nuclear powered nitrous infused liquid hydrogen cooling systems, etc... > >Fourthly, we've so far gained quite a response for the outing. We'll >definately discuss it at the next committee meeting and come up with a >time/date/place for the event. > >Fifthly, jumping again to the Linux/Windows ease of use thing. Since >I'm the only one who thinks Linux is difficult to use, I must be doing >something wrong. During the time I spent at Juniour College, the time >I'm spending here at Swatar Training Centre and time time I spend >chatting on the net, I've manage to convince at least 15 people to give >Linux a try. Of these 15 people, around 11 are doing some sort of >IT/Computer Science course, so they know a thing or two about >computers. A few weeks after trying it out, 13 have given it up - they >said "life's too short to spend a week...." and a variety of comments. >The other 2 keep asking me for solutions to problems on a daily basis. >Most of these problems I've encountered myself when I was a Lin newbie >(and since I encounter so many problems on a daily basis, I think I still am). > >Either I live with a circle of idiots (circle of which tend to get high >grades), or Linux is difficult to use... Ma nafx. Maybe Philip is right >after all. If I wasn't another RMS, why would I keep using Linux and >praising it with everyone I know? > >-- >Keith Vassallo >Registered GNU/Linux User #290991 >http://www.keithvassallo.net > >_______________________________________________ >MLUG-list mailing list >[email protected] >http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/2004 > > >_______________________________________________ >MLUG-list mailing list >[email protected] >http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list > > -- Keith Vassallo Registered GNU/Linux User #290991 http://www.keithvassallo.net _______________________________________________ MLUG-list mailing list [email protected] http://mailserv.megabyte.net/mailman/listinfo/mlug-list --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/2004
