Moving thread to mobile-l. On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Yuri Astrakhan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi everyone, sorry for not replying earlier. Ulf, thank you for your offer > to help, and everyone’s support of the map project! > > Here's our accomplishments so far and the approximate path forward: > > We now have built a vector-based Tile rendering service, called > Kartotherian <https://github.com/nyurik/kartotherian> (work in progress). > It is based on the components from Mapbox & Mapnik, and data from > OSM->osm2pgsql->Postgress w/Postgis. > > * Demo Server > <http://ns512621.ip-167-114-156.net:4000/static/#6/40.731/-73.989> > * Project page <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap> > * Implementation Info > <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Maps/Tile_Server_Implementation> > > At this point, we are implementing a server-side Vector->PNG conversion, > similar to mod_tile approach. But, internally, all data is stored as vector > tiles, and converted to images on the fly. We are capable of also serving > those tiles raw, without rasterisation, but we will still need to do some > extra work to optimize their size at low zoom levels, wait for the complete > font implementation (e.g. Arabic is not showing correctly), and a number of > other minor issues. So client-side vector rendering is pushed for the > second stage. > > Feel free to use the Demo Server > <http://ns512621.ip-167-114-156.net:4000/static/#6/40.731/-73.989> for > any development and testing work. > > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Corey Floyd <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I've been waiting to follow up on this until I got official clarification >> on WMF's position for using the Apple's framework… >> >> Good news, WMF legal has no privacy/legal concerns with using the MapKit >> framework - so we will be able to proceed with implementing map features >> using the official iOS SDK! >> >> This should make it much easier to develop this feature. >> >> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Ulf Buermeyer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Jon, >>> >>> thanks for following up! >>> >>> Just in order to share what we discussed yesterday let me briefly >>> summarize: >>> >>> Last year I submitted a pull request that introduces a simple map view >>> to display places referenced by coordinates mentioned in an article >>> (replacing the somewhat clumsy "look, there are 34 or so map providers >>> on the internet" page). The code was technically fine but not merged in >>> so far for policy reasons as MapViews on iOS display non-free content & >>> hit Apple's servers. >>> >>> So here are the options to move forward: >>> >>> * WMF may revisit the issue and approve use of Apple maps >>> + could be rolled out almost immediately >>> - non-free content >>> - privacy issue? >>> - community may be fond of that map selection page? >>> >>> * the MapView could be quickly tweaked to show nearby places >>> (accompanying the current nearby list) >>> + quick to implement >>> - non-free content >>> - privacy issue? >>> >>> >>> I have also coded an OpenStreetMap layer that can be displayed in an >>> ordinary iOS MapView but replacing Apple map content so it could be used >>> in both scenarios mentioned above to avoid hitting Apple servers. >>> + free content >>> - some time to implement (currently running in one of my apps but not >>> yet transformed into a separate component) >>> >>> >>> As for the OSM tiles to display in said layer, there are once again >>> three options: >>> >>> * set up WMF tile rendering infrastructure >>> + control over tile design >>> + download from WMF servers -> no privacy issue >>> - HUGE impact on engineering & operations resources >>> >>> * cache official OSM tiles >>> + download from WMF servers -> no privacy issue >>> + small impact on operations, little engineering >>> - some tile expiration logic / tweaking needed >>> - need to consult with admins: >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy >>> >>> * proxy official OSM tiles >>> + download from WMF servers -> no privacy issue >>> + small impact on operations, practically no engineering >>> - OSM guys from the UK may have concerns regarding load on their >>> infrastructure >>> - need to consult with admins: >>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy >>> >>> Hope that helps, happy to help. >>> >>> Best, Ulf >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/06/15 18:08, Jon Katz wrote: >>> > Hi All, >>> > Tilman brought Ulf (copied) to the office today and it was great and >>> > energizing to sit down with him and hear his thoughts on maps and >>> nearby >>> > options. As Tilman said earlier, Ulf has already done some work in >>> this >>> > area and is happy to help out. He also has some ideas about how we >>> > could make things scale. I think the only thing holding him back right >>> > now is not knowing where he can add the most value. >>> > >>> > I encourage Corey, Dmitry, Yuri and Max, in particular, to include Ulf >>> > in any conversations about this moving forward. >>> > >>> > -J >>> > >>> > On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Tilman Bayer <[email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi all, >>> > >>> > as it happens, Ulf (CCed, the author of last year's GitHub pull >>> > request >>> > <https://github.com/wikimedia/apps-ios-wikipedia/pull/3> that >>> Brian >>> > mentioned; he is the developer of a fairly popular geolocation iOS >>> > app <http://mapalarm.net/wp/> and runs his own OSM tileserver) is >>> in >>> > SF again currently; we'll have lunch early next week. He would be >>> > delighted to come by the office and chat with people working in >>> this >>> > area. (IIRC Max, Monte and Brion already met him last year, which >>> > led to that pull request.) Would some of the apps/maps people be >>> > interested in talking to him around 2pm on Monday, say? >>> > >>> > I showed Wikiminiatlas <https://wma.wmflabs.org/> to Ulf yesterday >>> > and he would be excited to use it to update his iOS app patch for a >>> > proof of concept that's in line with the privacy policy. I guess he >>> > could also use the new Karta server instead for something more >>> > production-like. >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 3:32 PM, Yuri Astrakhan >>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Disclaimer: I do not know much about the specifics of the iOS >>> > implementation, so can only speak about overall approach and >>> > possible concerns. >>> > >>> > * Per WMF privacy policy, we cannot use outside servers if that >>> > exposes our user's browsing behaviour. Thus any outside servers >>> > must be proxied to be consumable by our users. >>> > * OSM data is not the same as the tiles people see - there is >>> > data (clone of OSM db), there is data tiles (vector tiles) that >>> > only contain the features we try to show on a specific zoom >>> > level for that area, and there is rendering of that data as an >>> > image. From what I have learnt so far, most of the OSM-based >>> > stacks implement "raster tiles" - all images are pre-rendered >>> as >>> > PNGs for speed. >>> > * We are trying to switch to vector based approach, where tiles >>> > are stored as data, and converted to image on request, either >>> by >>> > the server or by the user's browser. Which means that if you >>> > have retina screen, the image will be rendered twice the >>> regular >>> > size, and will be much crispier. This also means that you can >>> > rotate it on your device, or dynamically change the language. >>> > * I suspect, and please update me on this if you know the >>> > details, that the built-in iOS implementation can only handle >>> > images (raster) from the 3rd party (WMF). Mapbox's vector >>> format >>> > is gaining in acceptance, and IIRC, has been selected by OSM >>> > community in general for the future development, but I am not >>> > sure iOS supports it natively. >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:24 PM, Brian Gerstle >>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Agree with Corey, I've mentioned this elsewhere >>> > < >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg03395.html >>> >, >>> > but it's important to note that as of iOS 6 >>> > <https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2012/10/02/apple-maps/>, >>> > Apple has been (and still appears to be >>> > < >>> http://applemapsmarketing.com/2014/11/open-street-map-apple-maps/>) >>> > using OSM for map data. I don't know the rationale behind >>> > why we need our own OSM servers, but does that rationale >>> > also prevent our iOS app from using Apple-provided OSM >>> data? >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 4:05 PM, Corey Floyd >>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Any reason to import a 3rd party library for >>> > functionality built in to the iOS SDK? Seems like work >>> > to explore/integrate a dependency where none is needed. >>> > Without this extra work, this is something that can be >>> > built in < 1 day. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 10:01 PM, Brian Gerstle >>> > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] >>> >> >>> > wrote: >>> > >>> > Cool, looks like mapbox has an iOS SDK >>> > <https://www.mapbox.com/mapbox-ios-sdk/>. Is >>> there >>> > somewhere that the progress on funding is being >>> > tracked? Put another way, where should I direct >>> PM, >>> > design, etc. to get this prioritized? Also, I >>> think >>> > it'd be worth it to ship this to a percentage of >>> > users to (further) validate the feature. >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 3:56 PM, Yuri Astrakhan >>> > <[email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Current state of affairs: >>> > https://karta.wmflabs.org/static/ is up and >>> > running, and should have all the data soon. It >>> > uses mapbox stack, which means that it >>> generates >>> > vector data tiles, and creates a PNG tiles on >>> > the fly. This also means that in a few days, >>> you >>> > will be able to view WebGL based maps there too >>> > - rendered on the browser, with multiple >>> styles, >>> > and rotatable. >>> > >>> > The community needs this service, and has >>> > already built a large number of amazing >>> projects >>> > even without the production-level vector >>> > service. Examples include >>> > * atlas-style drill-down map >>> > < >>> http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/de/map/wikipedia-clustermap_36725> >>> > (umap, see more info >>> > <http://umap.openstreetmap.fr/>) >>> > * Wikidata-based map of pages by class >>> > < >>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/wp-world/wikidata/superclasses.php?lang=en>, >>> > e.g. all rollercoasters >>> > < >>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/wiwosm/osm-on-ol/kml-on-ol.php?lang=en&uselang=en&zoom=3&lat=0&lon=0&classes=204832 >>> >. >>> > * There is an amazing presentation >>> > < >>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/wp-world/docs/ICC2013-WP-OSM-white.pdf> >>> > (pdf) by Kolossos (Tim Adler), that gives many >>> > more examples of the community-built map >>> > services and projects (OpenOffice format >>> > < >>> https://tools.wmflabs.org/wp-world/docs/ICC2013-WP-OSM-white.odp>) >>> > >>> > >>> > P.S. Tomasz, it's Yuri, not Yuvi, and don't >>> > blame IRC auto-complete :) >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 7:57 PM, Max Semenik >>> > <[email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> > >>> > Hey - yes, we're workig on serving map >>> > tiles. Both raster and MapBox vectors. Our >>> > current demo implementation is >>> > at https://karta.wmflabs.org/static/ - >>> only >>> > raster tiles ATM, vectors coming in 1-2 >>> > days. The main problem, however, is >>> > budgeting - yet if we get very little >>> > hardware, concentrating on maps for apps >>> > might even be a reasonable option as apps >>> > traffic might be lower than if we exposed >>> > maps to all web users. Getting no bugdet at >>> > all is also a possible outcome, though. >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> > Mobile-l mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Mobile-l mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > EN Wikipedia user >>> > page: >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brian.gerstle >>> > IRC: bgerstle >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Mobile-l mailing list >>> > [email protected] >>> > <mailto:[email protected]> >>> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Corey Floyd >>> > Software Engineer >>> > Mobile Apps / iOS >>> > Wikimedia Foundation >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > EN Wikipedia user >>> > page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Brian.gerstle >>> > IRC: bgerstle >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > Mobile-l mailing list >>> > [email protected] <mailto: >>> [email protected]> >>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Tilman Bayer >>> > Senior Analyst >>> > Wikimedia Foundation >>> > IRC (Freenode): HaeB >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > reading-wmf mailing list >>> > [email protected] <mailto: >>> [email protected]> >>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/reading-wmf >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Corey Floyd >> Software Engineer >> Mobile Apps / iOS >> Wikimedia Foundation >> > > > _______________________________________________ > reading-wmf mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/reading-wmf > >
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