Thank you Jason. I registered on Skype (rene.heymans).
You can try around noon your time (6PM mine).
Till then.
Regards, René

On Saturday, August 2, 2014 9:16:29 PM UTC+2, Jason Garber wrote:
>
> We can do a gotomeeting.  Perhaps around lunchtime eastern on Sunday?
> On Aug 2, 2014 2:08 PM, <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jason,
>>
>> Thank you very much for your kind and swift offer. I'll do it gladly ... 
>> but I need to set-up Skype on my station :-( and register a Skype account.
>> I'm an old-timer and my only contact is Gmail. I have no G+, no Facebook, 
>> no Twitter, ...
>>
>> What is your preferred day and time for a Skype call.
>> I live in the Paris-Luxembourg-Brussels time zone. For instance it is now 
>> Saturday Aug. 2, 20:05.
>>
>> When you say privately, I suppose a one-to-one call on Skype and I 
>> suppose I can easily find your name there.
>>
>> Have a nice Sunday and thanks again,
>>
>> René
>>
>> On Saturday, August 2, 2014 6:35:33 PM UTC+2, Jason Garber wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Rene,
>>>
>>> I offer to do a skype call with you to review all of this as I have been 
>>> there done that and have a crisp understanding of all the working parts. 
>>>
>>> Contact me privately if you want to do this.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jason
>>> On Aug 2, 2014 12:32 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Graham & al.,
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations for your software and documentation. I have however 
>>>> some difficulties as outlined in the subject caption.
>>>>
>>>> I'm building a case study for an application on an intranet within a 
>>>> company where the users would interact with their browser communicating 
>>>> with the Apache2/mod_wsgi server (daemon mode + multi-threads).
>>>>
>>>> However I'm afraid I'm misunderstanding some important underlying 
>>>> concepts of the architecture. Please allow me to give an example and to 
>>>> give you my thoughts - which could go wrong somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> *Part 1:*
>>>>
>>>> I wrote a simple HTML page with a one field input form.
>>>>
>>>> In my `environment` dictionary, I have, among other key/value pairs, 
>>>> the following:
>>>>
>>>>         REQUEST_METHOD: POST
>>>>         REQUEST_URI: /core/my-wsgi-app
>>>>         mod_wsgi.callable_object: application
>>>>
>>>> The first two values come obviously from my html <form 
>>>> action="core/my-wsgi-app" method="post">...</form>, and the third value is 
>>>> the default value in the configuration directive (WSGICallableObject 
>>>> application).
>>>>
>>>> In my my-wsgi-app script, I have of course:
>>>>
>>>>         def application (environment, start_response):
>>>>                [my code here]
>>>>                return [response_body]
>>>>
>>>> So all is fine and works well but there is something I don't get (I 
>>>> mean I haven't fully assimilated), certainly in a multi-users, 
>>>> multi-threads, ... environment. The main question is about the 
>>>> WSGICallableObject. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The documentation (https://code.google.com/p/modwsgi/wiki/
>>>> ConfigurationDirectives#WSGICallableObject) says "*The 
>>>> WSGICallableObject directive can be used to override the name of the 
>>>> Python 
>>>> callable object in the script file which is used as the entry point into 
>>>> the WSGI application.*" [underlining is mine]. For me the WSGI 
>>>> application is the whole application: when finished the target application 
>>>> I'm case studying could serve one hundred users, delivering thousands of 
>>>> pages built dynamically over hundreds of SQL tables, ... Am I right in 
>>>> thinking than one entry point would be fit for such purpose. The size of 
>>>> the application is such that I already opted for a daemon configuration 
>>>> with multi-threads (I do not wish to have users waiting in a single queue 
>>>> because one of them is building a page that takes seconds to assemble).
>>>>
>>>> Having one single callable object seems to give me these only 4 options:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Have only one single REQUEST_URI, say /core/my-wsgi-app,  where only 
>>>> one callable object (function, class, ...) is used under the one and same 
>>>> name (application). In such case that callable object is the one and only 
>>>> full single entry point to the overall application (thousands of pages 
>>>> built dynamically) and I must care for checking, authorisation, parsing, 
>>>> dispatching, ... and finally assembling the response and returning it. I'm 
>>>> wondering if this single script/callable-object could become a bottleneck. 
>>>> It is the concern I've just expressed. Of course, Python can handle 
>>>> hundreds of function calls and instance calls. This option makes me doubt 
>>>> I 
>>>> fully understand the mechanism. I call this option N to 1.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Have various REQUEST_URI (even one per page if need be) and in each 
>>>> called script, there would be one callable object with the same name 
>>>> ("application" as defined in the WSGICallableObject directive). In 
>>>> that case, I could create a callable instance of a base class but that 
>>>> instance should bear the application name and use the two positional 
>>>> arguments passed by mod_wsgi. This option, if used exclusively, seems to 
>>>> me 
>>>> like a normal "CGI static serving", i.e. one request activates one script 
>>>> (the whole logic and dynamism is in the script). This point too makes me 
>>>> doubt I understand the real nature of WSGI. I call this option N to N.
>>>>
>>>> 3) One could combine option 1 and 2 to create more dynamism without 
>>>> risking the potential (?) bottleneck of option 1 when used alone. I call 
>>>> this option N to M (<<N)
>>>>
>>>> 4) There seems to be a possibility to define the WSGICallableObject 
>>>> per directory. My understanding is that the REQUEST_URI belonging to a 
>>>> directory (and its sub-directories) would use that callable object name. 
>>>> This means for instance that any URI of the form /core/section-1/abc would 
>>>> have a callable object Application_1, while any URI under 
>>>> /core/section-N/... would have a callable object Application_N. I haven't 
>>>> tried this directive yet so I may misunderstand its role.
>>>>
>>>> This is my overall understanding but I'm afraid I'm missing something 
>>>> fundamental [please note that I'm not an English speaker and I might have 
>>>> missed subtleties in the documentation which is quite dense]. I tried to 
>>>> picture this in a diagram but I'm not sure I got it right:
>>>>
>>>>  M (html requests) -> 1 (http server) -> N x P (mod_wsgi daemons x 
>>>> threads) -> X? (Python instance(s) / one per daemon ? I don't know) -> M 
>>>> (calls to one object in one URI or to many objects - named the same - in 
>>>> many URI ? ) and back to the user via the same route.
>>>>
>>>> I assume that one user html request generates ultimately one call to a 
>>>> callable object (give or take) : that's why I use M in toth cases. Is this 
>>>> assumption correct ? My dilemma is that I can't understand the spread of 
>>>> the load between the 2 extremes: one URI containing the `application` 
>>>> callable object (that is eventually called hundreds of times per second) 
>>>> or 
>>>> many hundreds URI each containing a callable object named `application` 
>>>> that all get called much less frequently.
>>>>
>>>> *Part 2:*
>>>>
>>>> As a consequence of this hazy understanding of mine, I wonder why can't 
>>>> the name of the callable object be chosen on demand ?
>>>>
>>>> If I refer to PEP3333 (http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3333/) I 
>>>> understand that:
>>>>  "
>>>> *A server or gateway must invoke the application object using 
>>>> positional (not keyword) arguments. (E.g. by calling result = 
>>>> application(environ, start_response)*"
>>>>
>>>> So my guess is that, still referring to the example at the top, one 
>>>> thread in mod_wsgi loads (I wouldn't call this an import) the 
>>>> /core/my-wsgi-app script and calls application(environment, 
>>>> start_response) 
>>>> that has been defined in it. Is this the correct mechanism ?
>>>>
>>>> Could we imagine that mod_wsgi would sometime call my_App (arg1, arg2), 
>>>> some other time call your_App (req, resp) or call Small_app (in, out) 
>>>> where 
>>>> my_App, your_App, Small_app would be defined because mod_wsgi would be 
>>>> able 
>>>> to set dynamically the WSGICallableObject . Imagine that in the 
>>>> WSGIImportScript script file, we would have:
>>>>
>>>>         def my_App (param1, param2):
>>>>              [code here]
>>>>              return [my_Response]
>>>>
>>>>         def your_App (param1, param2):
>>>>              [code here]
>>>>              return [your_Response]
>>>>
>>>>         def Small_app (param1, param2):
>>>>              [code here]
>>>>              return [Small_response]
>>>>
>>>> all the functions would be ready to be called.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose that in any case we are limited:
>>>>
>>>> A)   by the HTTP protocol (URI given via the action attribute, the 
>>>> POST, GET, OPTIONS, ... from the method attribute and the key/value pairs 
>>>> from the various input fields); and
>>>>
>>>> B)   by directives we could give to configure mod_wsgi. I guess it is 
>>>> not the role neither the intend to build some "user logic" within mod_wsgi.
>>>>
>>>> *Conclusions:*
>>>>
>>>> 1) Am I correct in my understanding of mod_wsgi as expressed here above 
>>>> (Part 1) ? Beware that I could be out of my depth, i.e. talking about 
>>>> something I don't properly understand. In that case please correct me or 
>>>> complement my view.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Do we need to dynamically choose the callable object name for the 
>>>> sake of dynamism and multiplicity ?
>>>>
>>>> ->  If not, the current set-up is enough. In which case is the 
>>>> preceding point ( 1) ) complete and correct ?
>>>>
>>>> ->  If yes, how to do it simply and elegantly ?
>>>>
>>>>         => Idea 1: create an extra key/value pair (e.g. 
>>>> wsgi_callable_object=my_application). It seems cumbersome to me.
>>>>
>>>>         => Idea 2: if the URI were to have the form 
>>>> /core/my-wsgi-app/_my_application then mod_wsgi could provide:
>>>>                         REQUEST_URI: /core/my-wsgi-app
>>>>                         mod_wsgi.callable_object: my_application
>>>>              in the 'environment` dictionary because it would strip the 
>>>> trailing part beginning with an underscore provided it is told to do so by 
>>>> a directive;
>>>>              otherwise it would behave as now and deliver:
>>>>                         REQUEST_URI: /core/my-wsgi-app/_my_application
>>>>                         mod_wsgi.callable_object: application
>>>>
>>>> *Thanks:*
>>>>
>>>> I do realize this is an unusual post (maybe it should find its way in 
>>>> the group working on the documentation) but I would be very happy if some 
>>>> of you could answer / feedback to me. In any case I do thank you all in 
>>>> advance.
>>>>
>>>> René
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>>> Groups "modwsgi" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>>> an email to [email protected].
>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/modwsgi.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>  -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "modwsgi" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to [email protected] <javascript:>.
>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] 
>> <javascript:>.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/modwsgi.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"modwsgi" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/modwsgi.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Reply via email to